Might be a coincidence that has never happened before, certainly not in 2018/19, nor in 2021/22, but that’s two Man City’s direct rivals dropping points in space of a week to wrong refereeing decisions, while Man City gained points from one such decision.
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Saliba and Rice easily walk into our starting XI, while Odegaard would be a stylistic choice - he’s certainly a player who’s good enough to be a starter for us if Klopp tweaked the system to get the most out of him, something I feel Arteta’s been doing for two years at least.
I have to admit that I expected this season to be the one where Martinelli explodes, though he has time on his side to do it at some point. I doubt there are many non-Arsenal fans who rate Saka higher than me but it seems to me that he might have been overplayed and that fatigue is impacting his form. Maybe that’s the case with Martinelli, too.
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Alisson
TAA Saliba VvD Robertson
Szoboszlai Rice Ödegaard
Saka Salah Díaz
TAA Saliba VvD Robertson
Szoboszlai Rice Ödegaard
Saka Salah Díaz
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Which decision was wrong against Arsenal?
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I thought the Bowen goal was inconclusive. I’d eat my hat if that was given in our favour or against Man City.
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Rice gets into our side, as said above, he’s an upgrade in the 6 role.
Saliba gets in our side first of all alongside Van Dijk, but then as a long term successor. At the worst, he rotates in and out to keep them all fresh, but generally you prefer a settled pairing if you can, and Saliba doesn’t get injured much, and is a very good player, with many years left on the clock. He’s in.
After that there are a few more players where you could argue the toss either way, and at the least, Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard all improve our squad, and they would all see plenty of action.
Arsenal are not the best thing since sliced bread, but equally it’s going overboard to highlight how crap they are. The truth is they are a good side, with some flaws.
Whisper it quietly, so are we!
I think we have more upside to come than Arsenal, as our team develops, and I expect us to go past them, as now it is neck and neck.
I personally think the decision was right - to not disallow the Bowen goal, because the evidence was inconclusive. But had the ref blown the whistle for the ball being out of play, it wouldn’t have been turned over either due to lack of a conclusive angle.
I do agree with you however, if it were us, the refs would probably have blown the whistle and ruled the ball had gone out of play, and VAR would have nothing to go in to say “clear and obvious” - “can’t do nothing”
Unlucky for Arsenal that its happened twice in a season - but they weren’t wronged by those decisions in my opinion - just unlucky.
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Last nights was impossible to rule out or in. As you say given out on the field it’s not overruled.
To me I think I’d have given it in, however 22 shots off goal says it all.
All the shots on goal bar 2 were very easy saves.
I expected a lot more in the second but they just seemed to get worse. They are lucky having to go to Fulham who are in such bad form.
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And credit to Arteta, who said as much re. Arsenal having had enough chances to win without the decision against them.
Better than his rant a few weeks ago “its a disgrace etc”, which pissed me off after he said “get on with it” after our quite clearly wrongly ruled out goal against Spurs.
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I was surprised there isn’t an overhead view, but I suppose the PL has standardized on the camera locations and not all of the stadiums would be capable of providing that overhead view. But I expected the broadcast to have a better angle at the Emirates.
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It is a fake controversy. Refs should only give decisions when they are certain in their minds and there is no way to expect a ref to make such a tight byline call like that, and with the bodies in the way (Bowen from one side and Zinchenko from the other) even the best lino in the world couldnt do that. So it’s then up to the cameras to give help and they cannot produce clear evidence either way. So as close as it was, goal is the only justifiable decision.
We’re left with Arsenal fans feeling hard done by because, in their view, the goal should have been disallowed because it’s possible it might have been out. It is the sort of complaint that the media should only cover in the context of Arsenal cracking up and looking for excuses for their own failures rather than treating it as a controversy in its own right.
But this is my gripe in general about football at the moment. Everything is being made to be about VAR, yet there are so few clearly articulated complaints that have a basis in what happened. When those do exist and are articulated, like us with the Diaz goal, there is push back. Yet in every other instance the game is falling over itself to invent controversy over VAR to make it the main talking point. We’ve had a couple of days of complaints about the Onana handball that was a clear as day pen…he threw himself at the ball to block a shot and did so with his outstretched arms. You dont get to claim lack of intent or ball to hand when you have thrown yourself into the flight of the ball. Even Dyche himself initially didnt think it was the main talking point. He started the interview I saw talking about how City changed their approach at the start of the second half and he was slow to react to it. Ok, what were the changes? How did it change the dynamic? What should he have done in response? No, none of that was raised. The interviewer went straight to asking him if he was upset about VAR. It is manufactured controversy that is ruining the game.
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100%
I don’t think it’s as clear as that - simply because of language like “natural position” - which in my view, for someone trying to block a ball about to be kicked, seems pretty natural. The rule should be simple - touches an arm - penalised.
I guess this is where Dermot G’s comments about it are accurate - it’s all become over precise in the language, and I am frustrated by the requirement of “clear and obvious” - I’m still not sure that, had the ref not given the on-field decision, if it would have been re-referree’d under the guise of “clear and obvious”.
Agree 100% that the media don’t help this manufacturing of controversy.
The language used in the rules is invariably awful, but it also has be acknowledged that language in this context is what is referred to as a term of art. It is language that has a specific meaning to a specific group of people in a specific context that is not apparent from it’s common useage. In that sense, “natural position” tends not to apply to players who have put themselves into the flight of the ball. It applies far more to players who are on their feet and the ball hits them rather than them getting themselves into the way of the ball. You look at the Romero one that wasnt given against Utd as something that is being used as comparison, and while that is right on the border of what is given, the big difference was he was still on his feet. You can make a much better case there for the ball striking him rather than him getting himself and his hands into the flight of the ball.
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I agree that the level of controversy is ramped up by the media. It’s what they do though, right? Not just in sport, but in most things. They try to make a mountain out of a molehill, and if there’s an angle, they will keep going, ad infinitum. It gets more clicks, more eyeballs, more conversation… more engagement, more money.
There’s a blurry line between sports and entertainment, and it gets worse at the global/multi-billion end of the scale.
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@Sweeting makes the point that a lot of fans don’t actually like football they just are sucked into a lot of the shit that happens around football. I think Dyche wanting to talk about his tactical observations of the match and the interview saying “no, lets complain about VAR for not overturning a totally legit penalty” is just another example of that.
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Had an appointment during the game, so watched the highlights after without knowing the result. As frustrating as Saturday was, I fully expected Arsenal to win last night. Moyes is a football genius.
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Just watching it now, watched the first half last night. The stats don’t do it justice. The heat map is amazing. Most of the Arsenal side spent most of the match in the West Ham end.
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I would hate to see that become a rule. Think of how players deliberately play the ball off a defender to win a throw in or corner, and now imagine teams doing training to learn the easiest way to force contact between ball and defender’s arm in the box. It would be absolute mayhem during games.
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