Arne Slot - Head Coach (Part 1)

The Albert
3824

Hypothetically, because we have not done it, but if we did deploy the diamond we would defend with three midfielders behind Wirtz, who would be behind Isak and Ekitike. Grav, Szobo and Macca/Jones would give us a good solid trio in the middle.

The fullbacks would provide overlapping width, using their stamina to get up and down the flanks. If possession turned over Grav at the base of the diamond would slot into a back three to give defensive solidity.

Based on the players we have now, I think it would be much better than what we have seen. If Slot intends to play with wingers (and he is still here) he needs to buy one or two, as neither Gakpo or Salah, for different reasons, are elite.

How would we press in a diamond? I can only talk in concepts, as it would need to be dialed in on the training ground and with reps on the pitch in a match situation. But no passengers, everyone working hard and putting in the running. Pressing in a trio, or a four, moving in concert, cutting off passing lanes, taking away options for the defending team to either win it back directly - Wirtz in the past has been very good at getting his toe in, or the press would force them to do a bad pass and we get the ball back that way.

Based on the players we have I would like to see a diamond tried. It has the potential to get our attacking talent on the pitch and even though the vast majority of teams stay away from this system, there’s no reason why we can’t innovate by cracking it, given the players we have.

Alternately, if we signed, say, Semenyo, I could see a 4231 coming to the fore with Ekitike-Wirtz-Semenyo behind Isak. Bold in an attacking sense for sure, and the others would need to be compact to ensure enough defensive stability.

3825

My thought on this, basically stay solid, don’t concede, score and then open up more as an attacking force… it would be much better than what we’ve been seeing.

We concede so many goals at the minute that stopping that flow would be a big improvement, and then we do have the attacking players to turn that up a bit as the game progresses.

3826

He is gone. Cannot fixit. No idea. Just get it done. Blaming Sakad (fecked) and VVD (not)is mad.

3827

Copying this over from the PSV post game thread because its more applicable here…

There obviously isn’t much visibility into the specific dynamic among the group involved in personnel decisions or who contributed what to which decisions, but i find some of the scenarios being suggested that paint Slot as someone let down by the process are just inconceivable to imagine with how we know this group has worked in the past.

  • Everyone who has ever spoken on the record from the data team has been quick to share credit and spoken about the importance of the human element in the decision making, and the importance of everyone being aligned in ideas and priorities
  • We know the data team don’t just look at players for positions, but profiles of players. We would not accidentally get a running FB if the manager wanted/needed a progressive passer. And we wouldn’t get someone who cannot invert if that is what the manager wanted to do.

Given this it seems inconceivable to me that Slot was dictated to or that players were bought for different profiles than he needed. Unlike in 2014 I don’t think there is even a good case to be made for us just buying players who weren’t good enough. Even the ones who are not yet performing were identified as quality outside of our interest in them and were not surprising when our interest in them surfaced.

The very uncomfortable question this leaves me with is how well did Slot play his role in the process. We are seeing a side who don’t look certain how to implement what he has been asking of them this season. If he has struggled to communicate it to the players, is it possible there was a similar disconnect with Hughes and his team in the planning stage?

The simplicity of his direction was credited for a lot of his success last year, and that is a textbook mark of good coaching…simplify the message to the one or two points that are most important for the coachee to implement. But that was achieved in the context of only making small tweaks to what he wanted to see. The attempted change this season has been bigger and has Slot just not developed the right story to help people understand what he’s looking for?

2 Likes
3828

With Diaz, what I feel we are missing with him gone, is his physicality in helping the LB, pressing and always trying to be available for a pass or a mazy run to get us up the pitch.

He has thatbbit of mongrel in him which none of our current forwards as the same mongrel that Sadio had.

We have too few players who have that mongrel, Robbo, Macca and Kerkez plus Endo and 3 of these either aren’t involved or lacking fitness and the last is a little naive in his positioning.

3829

You need more than 3 midfielders to defend in whichever formation.

It’s easy to imagine a diamond pressing with the #10 sitting on the single or one of the opponent’s double pivots and two strikers doing one of variations how they press defenders.

What about when the press breaks and the defending needs more than "we can just press morphing from a diamond to a 4-3-3? Even under Klopp, when teams broke our press, we didn’t remain as a 4-3-3 all of the time.

Do we drop Wirtz to one of the sides, so it becomes a 4-4-2? It cannot possibly remain a diamond shape, we’d get murdered with what we’re (not) producing at full back.

And how about the type of players we have up top? Isak pressed at Newcastle, but what about Ekitike? And who would be their backups, any two of the likes of Salah, Chiesa and Gakpo? How would our press look with any of them in as strikers? How would our connection in attack be when them players have to play basically back to goal?

3830

Yep, we miss Diaz for sure. If the newbies were clicking, we would be looking backwards a lot less as new stories would be written. Hopefully that will come soon.

If Slot wants to play with wingers he needs to buy one or two, as what we have in the wings right now is not elite.

3831

Right so its not an issue of the shape.

If you are shoehorning players into a side who you dont think are equipped to play a high pressing game and using this shape as the best fit for them then it isnt an issue of the shape. But more importantly, there is no combination of players we have at whom we could rightly throw that accusation.

3832

Too much pressure on “others”.

Under Klopp, we did our best to camouflage one special attacker in Salah. It’s not like he didn’t defend, he absolutely had to do a certain amount. But that was our balance and how we got the best out of him.

How many players would we have to camouflage in that system with a lot of forwards and very offensive wide forwards?

Gravenberch and one of MacAllister/Szoboszlai behind is not enough. And it likely opens up other issues on the ball, a lack of control and possibly even creativity.

3833

As a 1 v 1 defender Kerkez is excellent, but needs more help with his positioning, i.e the 2nd goal against PSV, but we have conceded several goals with Robbo from the similar type of pass to the back post.

Going forward it is hard due to how Gakpo plays out wide and constantly ignoring his runs and what seems the coaches requirements for underlapping runs, which again are ingnored.

3 Likes
3834

I don’t think anyone has any problems with that whatsoever at the moment

3835

Defending from the front, so the strikers and the 10 are all bought in and putting in the yards as needed, as well as everyone behind them. It’s the only way the press can work.

When it breaks down ideally that would be due to great play from the opposition, rather than our own shortcoming. The problem with football is that the opposition might also have some ideas about how they want to hurt you! I suppose on balance the idea is to have better players and better ideas and impose yourself on them, overall.

I would also say any system is a starting reference point, but it needs to have fluidity. So a midfield diamond could be tweaked to suit the in-game situation, and with relatively small movements it could go to 4231, 4222, etc. In actuality there would be multiple formations every game, but if the diamond was selected, it would be the starting reference point.

I;m not sure I’ve said this last part, but I’m not necessarily tied to a diamond, per se… it’s just that to my mind, it suits the players we currently have. If Slot wants to play with wingers we need to buy one or two.

3836

I think he may have tried 3 at the back if Leoni had stayed fit or with Robertson by now on the left.

I don’t think he’s even considering it.

1 Like
3837

Quite possibly. There definitely would be too much pressure on the others if the front four just thought their job was to attack and not defend. But my philosophy would be to defend from the front, and everyone would have responsibility for that.

3838

We talked about this in another thread not long ago where I replied (I don’t think directly to you, but I continued the conversation) that it depends on the type of players you have.

When people talk about what our diamond would be, I imagine our current players in it and also think back to the few diamonds I’ve seen in my football following.

Some would have different problems, some would have similar ones. And this is only talking about one or two phases of the game, let alone other ones.

3839

Yes, but it’s not possible to win the ball as high as possible enough times to prevent the need of defending mid-pitch and deeper at times. Regardless of what you have up top attacking and pressing. Intent is one thing, doing it all the time or even most times is not possible.

1 Like
3840

People are discussing the formation and how to press from the formation, when for me our issue is pressing with 4 men and Arne always wanting plus 1 at the back, whilst using a 4 man front press.

This leaves space in midfield which teams are taking advantage of by a FB or forward creating an overload in midfield and easily playing through the press.

Under Jurgen we mainly played with a 3 man press and had a great compactness around the ball, we did occasionally have a midfielder ‘jump’ to press but was situational and when we had forced the opposition back.

I don’t see traps set or a philosophy in our press in what are we trying to achieve, where are we forcing play and who are we allowing the ball and then pressing.

Our full backs used to press high with our CB’s covering and the opposite full back shifting across, but because of the ‘plus 1’ that Arne wants at the back our full backs struggle to assist the press and another reason it fail.

This is where Arne is failing he hasn’t adapted to how the opposition break the press.

1 Like
3841

We’re all just passing the time of day, but I think everything is possible if you execute it well. All systems have upsides and downsides. In a 4231 it has a lot of attacking firepower, and it might not be as solid defensively as some other systems. That would be an intentional choice you would make, and an attacking manager like Slot might choose to go for it.

Obviously in any system you would try to keep the upside whilst mitigating the downside, so in a 4231 you would want defending to start from the front, all four of them working, and in addition the players behind would need to keep a compact formation so you don’t get overrun.

2 Likes
3842

Our defending mid pitch is an issue due to our wide forwards not doing the required work which drags our midfielders all over.

Defensively we look the best in a low block if our widemen work back defensively.

3843

Some things are not possible.

It’s not so much the system, but the players within the system. And even if we had Salah, Mane, Firmino and then choose whoever you want of the current crop as the 4th one for that 4-2-3-1, we cannot always win the ball high up.

I don’t see enough balance in the shouts to play Salah and Ekitike on the sides with Isak up top, I don’t see enough balance in that combination with Semenyo and Ekitike and Wirtz behind Isak either. Both defending and attacking, if we take it that Szobo is currently undroppable.

There is no big secret unlocked if we go and sign Semenyo. Keeping Diaz or buying Semenyo as a hope that he’s more aggressive like Diaz compared to a nicey-nicey Gakpo is not enough to revive our pressing.