Slot said post-match at HT he switched to Salah on the right and a midfielder on the left in Wirtz. Szobo was then still more of a #10 (which Wirtz was in the first half) than RCM #8. End of the game it was indeed Szobo as the RCM #8 and Wirtz LCM #8.
I don’t know what was said in the match thread since I turn off the internet on my phone when our games are on, I’m watching the game. I just check some stuff at HT like team or individual stats and average positions of both teams.
Under Slot, since he took over, we have been mainly in a double-pivot structure, not a 4-3-3.
There were some games, though not a lot of them, where the #10 player (mostly Szobo, back to more of a RCM #8) would drop a little lower and closer to our deepest two midfielders.
I love your optimism, but I have lost a bit of mine.
I too was looking forward to how the 4 2 3 1 would be developed and saw shoots of recovery against West Ham, but against Sunderland the 4 2 3 1 defensively was too passive with no structure from the manager to press and allowed the opposition too much space and time.
That first 30 mins killed my optimism and then he ripped it up at half time with the introduction of Mo, which did increase our intensity and press, but this could have been done with the initial formation.
BTW no blame on Mo, more on Arne.
Good video especially in regard to our press or lack of.
It’s a tricky business, fending off despair! Like all reds I am gutted by what we are seeing this season, but I am trying to remain hopeful that we will come through this slump and with a fair wind nab a CL spot.
I think there may be several factors at play, and they involve Xabi Alonso and probably the elite manager going right now in Luis Enrique. I mention these because I don’t think we’d go for Iraola just yet, nor Glasner.
If either one of them indicates they’d move to us in the summer, then I think we’d want to give Slot the season, but there’d have to be an “interim” contingency if we start to drift away from the top 4, because I can’t see either one of them joining us without it.
If Alonso gets sacked from Real Madrid soon, and he indicates he’s happy to move to us shortly after, I think we’ll pull the trigger on Slot, similar to how we stuck with Rodgers, and once Klopp was done, we sacked him, even after a draw in the Merseyside derby at Goodison, which wasn’t a bad result.
I say all this because Slot has one year on his contract in the summer, and despite the stuff coming out that the club continue to back him, I think it’ll possibly lead us to evaluate what we could do in the summer managerial wise, depending on how certain chips fall. Even if we finish in the UCL places (top four or five), I think if the two Spanish managers indicate they’d come to us, I think we may be tempted to go with one of them.
This could all be mute if we start playing like a properly coached team (I said it post-WHU, we just look really poor overall, both defensively and attacking wise. Nothing last night changed my mind. Any semblance of a well-coached side with identity and patterns of play has well and truly gone for me. We’ve become Moments FC).
Maybe the club will pull an interim out the bag, someone we’ve not considered i.e. Joachim Low, but they don’t want to throw them in during the Christmas period carnage. Maybe Slot will be visited by the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future, and realise that what we did last season can work now with the players we have, and give us back our identity and what pushed us to title number 20.
I agree with all that. If there’s a chance for Alonso or Enrique that would be good, especially if things don’t turn around for Slot.
If Slot finished say fourth - off the pace for the title, but regrouped enough that he started to get a tune out of them to see us finish in a CL spot, I think he would be very unlucky if we let him go at that point.
Two seasons, following a legend in Klopp, yielding one Prem win and one top four finish, should not result in Slot losing his job. It would be really unlucky.
One other manager I see possibly coming into the mix would be Nagelsmann, after the World Cup. I see Klopp taking the Germany job and Nagelsmann becoming available, even with more time on his deal.
Again, depending on how it goes this season with Slot, he could be one to watch.
I think that’s fair. If we finished in the UCL places, it would depend entirely on performances, and whether we’ve established real positive signs going forward. The club has previous in that Houllier finished in the top 4, and we sacked him (albeit under a different ownership and period of time), but we were relying on moments, rather than a quality side constructed, and looking like it could really kick on. We’d also looked poor the season before that in 2002/03, so I acknowledge the circumstances and the larger body of evidence to dismiss him.
I know the club are fond of being opportunistic, which is why I could see us taking a different direction from Slot even if we finished in the top 4. You’re right, it would be incredibly unlucky for anyone to be sacked after winning a league and finishing top 4 on paper, but it’s those performances and the direction of travel, and whether we look like a dominant side that’ll kick on which are important too, and the opportunistic side of it comes into play with Enrique or Alonso saying yes to us. It’s really ruthless stuff, and I think it’d be something may sit uncomfortably with some fans, but it does pose an interesting scenario.
Nagelsmann is an interesting one. I could see him taking the reigns at Real Madrid (if Alonso departs and he has a good World Cup). He definitely has all the qualities you’d want in terms of a football manager. He could be someone to throw into the mix for sure.
Fair comment. Arguably we could scrape top four simply by getting a few wins on the board at the right time, but we might still be all over the place with our performances and style, such that we are not fully convinced that we are building up to a title challenge again. Definitely something to watch, especially if an elite manager becomes available.
I would not swap a scrappy top four finish for Glasner or the like, but Alonso or Enrique might be a different kettle of fish. Interesting times.
In the meantime, hopefully we beat Leeds and show something more.
i don’t dislike Chiesa,
but I find him a but chaotic,
a head down steaming forward and into opposition players type of player.
i’m not sure he should be a first team pick, he’s more of a squad player,
but i do think he should be getting more minutes than he gets at the moment.
For me there are parallels with the ownership situation - we’ve had spells where the FSGOUT noise has been been really prominent, but I don’t really understand how leaping feet first into the unknown can ever be preferable, except in the most extreme circumstances.
I won’t want to see Slot removed until I feel confident there is something better around the corner.
This feels quite similar with Rodgers departure, it got to summer 2015, the season had been shit, he was obviously finished, and there was a growing majority of posters adamant that he had to be sacked there and then on the last miserable day of the season. I was accused of accepting mediocrity and tolerating failure because my position was the only one I wanted was Klopp, he said he needed a break, and we should wait. I think I was right about that one.
So, my position on Slot is that he gets time and space to sort this, but crucially we also need to know who is available, and at this point no-one looks appealing. Suggests of Gerrard as interim are not serious, Glasner looks like a bit of a prick to me, and Iriola is promising but would be a gamble at this level. The availabiliyy of Alonso or Nagelsman would change the equation, but that doesn’t look like happening soon.
Not despair for me, as no matter what happens I will be here supporting and expecting us to win every game, I just have doubts for Arne and whether he can turn it around and save his job.
if thats the sequence i remember (first half) the set up is not as bad as that still showed, i think Wirtz started to move forward, then the ball shuffled to Isaks side, where he let the lad just walk past him, that was the terrible part. Isak had to fill the space for me.
you cant just sit high all game and expect not to be played through, (thats my take)…in your still shot its a 4v2 and that hardly a crime in an isolated moment.
that said, our press, with Isak being a traffic cone, is pretty hard to watch…
That wasn’t just an isolated moment, that’s how we set up for the whole of the first half.
A 2 man press with the wide players dropping back to fullback. That’s an awful set up for a team with our quality.
If (well when) Alonso gets sacked at Madrid I hope the timing works out for us if Slot doesn’t turn it around (not much sign of that happening). He is proven and could be everything Gerrard should have been for us.
The invert fullbacks/tucked out wingers thing wasn’t there or at least not done consistently in the West Ham match, so I thought maybe we finally moved on. But no, we went back to it just with different players. Multiple times I could see Macca move to outside and have space to progress but the ball inevitably got passed back to the centre backs. Szobo and Grav spun around several times with the ball and couldn’t make a pass. I don’t get why we are persisting with a system that doesn’t work, and this is just me feeling, but I think the players are getting fed up with it (except for Gakpo, he seems to be the type who follows instructions to the t). They seem confused and non committing rather than simply making mistakes.
I mentioned that in the match thread. Gomez was definitely inverting through the game. I have absolutely no idea why.
Yesterday was pretty normal from what I could gather. I even saw Gravenberch dropping to create a 3 shape at the back in some build up moments.
This is our average positions of yesterday, though of course we seemed to flip the formation near the end of the game.
Hope I’m wrong here but I don’t think we’ll get the best out of Wirtz while Salah is still here. There’s a consensus amongst fans that we should build the team around Wirtz (I agree) but as we saw yesterday as soon as Salah came on the pitch everything went through him. Last season Salah was superhuman and carried this team on his back to a title so it’s only natural for the majority of players to just look for him at every opportunity and hope he pulls off a bit of magic. It just means Wirtz gets pushed out to the periphery. Wirtz 2 best games for us have come against Frankfurt and West Ham, both games Salah wasn’t on the pitch. It’s up to Slot to find a way to get the best out of both but so far this season he hasn’t managed to get the best out of either which is disappointing as they’re both superstars.
Wirtz also played really well (as the team did) against Real, being inside left that night and Salah was in his role on the right. Their qualities compliment each other.
