It wasn’t used to run the rule over Klopps final season because its not used for snapshots in time. It is trended over time to avoid recency bias, whether on the positive or negative
Thank you!! I have been banging on about the lack of pressing (or coherent pressing) being the biggest problem for months! That was also a huge part of our intensity identity and that has practically evaporated.
I would say the lack of pressing it not inability of the players, but a tactical decision, one somewhat linked with our running stats.
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But it was, something you previously acknowledged occurred and was the correct use of such an approach.
Maybe like over the course of a season?
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There is a bit of chicken and egg about that.
Klopp’s final season at Dortmund kinda made its point by itself, as he was able to massively turn results around in the course of the season. Unlike certain recent examples.
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Which would make Klopp a poor choice just based on his last season at Dortmund
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We have stopped pressing quite so much over the second half of the season, but we started the season with no drop off in how much we tried, we were just shit at it.
Yeah its one thing to not know that Isal, Wirtz, and Hugo were all bought with great scouting records on their ability to play a pressing game. But it’s a glaring limitation of an argument when people point to players who were here and played significant roles in last year’s teams and conclude that you cannot play an effective pressing game with them.
It’s similar to the “we have been undermined because Slot doesnt have the quick wingers he needs” argument, despite Mo and Cody having been our wingers in about 75% of our games last season.
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Except the whole point of the statistical analysis was that even during the run of bad results that undermined their season they were still hitting the performance notes you saw from the good versions of his side. Hence the confidence that “Klopp had been found out” was not true.
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Agreed, but imo it was more than pressing. It was also about maintaining shape during and after pressing.
I dont think I’ve seen us so indisciplined regarding shape and structure in a long time.
You cannot separate shape/structure from pressing success. So much of pressing breaks down not because of lack of effort, but bad shape/structure, often even in possession shape. If you look at the classic Gegenpress it prioritized short, quick passing in possession. The point of that being that you dont want to spread out the pitch when you’re in possession because for you to win the ball back quickly you need a critical mass of players close enough to it to apply pressure in the right areas.
This also largely the issue Grealish had under Pep in that too often he 'd see defenders be isolated and think it an opportunity to expose them by running at them, whereas Pep viewed it as a high risk situation in the case they lost the ball.
Oddly, for Pep to be happy about Grealish taking on a defender, he wanted him to be more patient and wait until the game reset so there were more players around the ball before he tried to beat his guy. It often meant there were 2 defenders to beat rather than the one there would have been had he been more aggressive. But that is why you pay 100m for a tricky winger because your demands of him are that much higher.
We are far too often starting from position where we’re far too spread out with players far too far from where they need to be to have any impact. So the result is we get easily played around as we belatedly try to make up the ground to where we should be.
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I’m still not sure. In his prematch press conferences, he came across as being very stressed up until about March, when we had a couple of really grim results. He then seemed to become, not so much relaxed, as resigned.
Either he had been told that they were essentially, writing the season off and would fix things in the summer, or he knew that they were looking at alternatives to the coaching team.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there is a change after the season ends. Regardless of that, he is seeing the season out.
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I find that every week I have a pattern. The game happens, I hate what I’m watching and I want to see a change.
Then the further away from matchday I get I start to convince myself that maybe this is all just part of a process. An inevitably, necessary growing period that we just have to come through the other side of. Maybe it isn’t so bad…
Then the next game kicks off and within 10 minutes I want him fired again.
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The immediate question when you see the lack of effective forward press, is why?
Is it due to players being unable to do it, or is it a tactical instruction? But why would Slot be so daft to bin a way of winning games which worked so effectively last season, and allowed him to win the PL title?
I think it’s rather inability or unwillingness from the players. Still can’t work out why though. Maybe there is a genuine physical struggle and fatigue within the team, hindering our usual strength and work rate on the pitch.
Yet our forwards (except Isak and Salah) do press. Wirtz, Ekitikè and even Szoboszlai we often look like we are in a 424 when defending.
In fact it’s 514 at best as our defensive line drops far to quickly with Gravenberch leaving 1 midfielder with far too much to cover.
It’s often said on here how poor for example Ekitikè presses, I disagree he’s much better at getting the angles right than for example Szoboszlai. Also Wirtz watches intently however due to poor structure and tactics he ends up having to cover too many outs for the opposition (particularly when it’s Szoboszlai who 'leads the press as he doesn’t cover angles at all).
We end up with no plan or structure with far too much space between our lines and in the centre of the pitch. Noone marks or blocks passing lanes which isn’t the fault of the front men. It’s a fault in the system.
We need better than ‘fast’ wingers to get out of this mess. I’d keep Szoboszlai but play him on the left as a midfielder. What he does ATM is useless. So we could see him as a hybrid winger. Wirtz as a 10. As it is I’d replace Gravenberch with someone who can read the game, be physically present and pick out a pass. Jones should be in the midfield mix imo to help get the ball forward. Still that means bringing in 2 midfielders to replace Gravenberch and Macca neither of which help us transition.
None of our problems will be solved by Slot imo. He’s using who we have too poorly for that.
Talking about who to bring in seems futile as it is. Noone knows what the game plan is least of all our players. They all seem to be playing in different teams. The reason I mention replacing Gravenberch and Macca is that they have both been so poor this season. Gravenberch can only be in a team that presses well and even then needs to learn how to pass the ball simply and effectively.
There’s just soo much wrong that it’s impossible to cover it in a post. There’s more to go over than could be covered in an encyclopedia.
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Well, if that is the criteria that’s me out of the running
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Look on the bright side, there’s something to be said for theories that never actually get tested in the real world
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Yes, as I always said, Rafa would have won the league had we only bought him Benni McCarthy and no one will ever be able to prove me wrong.
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Meh. McCarthy was always the poor man’s Darren “Speedboat” Huckerby…
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