Climate Catastrophe

[cynicaloldgit]

@Redbj

to stop people travelling (now the cats out of the bag) would be to revert to national boundaries, suspicion of other peoples and races and easy manipulation…

We have all of those things.

[Redbj]

maybe, but we actually still have opposition to those things too…and its probably got some base in visiting each other and understanding each other …its not critical that you travel to be a good person, but it might help…

please dont deflect either, the point above holds…stamping out all recreational travel would mean a lessening of understanding towards other peoples, that was my main point

[Redbj]

having said all that, maybe travel is too accessable nowadays and tourism as an industry could be reviewed…

having just come back from Bali, meeting people who go there 2/3 times a year…maybe that could be looked at

[Dane]

Big difference between commercial flying and having your own private jet though.
Let’s say the carbon footprint of a flight from NY to London is a size 12.
The private jet owner is responsible for the whole footprint, the commercial traveller shares the footprint with another 200 people.

[redalways]

@cynicaloldgit

I hate the fact that Liverpool Football Club flies to European games, or uses multiple coaches to travel to domestic games.

This in particular bugs me a lot, especially when there are so many situations where trains would have been better for this.

[RedWhippet]

@Lynch04

The UK does impose a fee for a plastic carrier bag. Originally, it was a 5p charge but now 10p, according to the government. However, it has been used by Supermarkets as another way of profiting

At one time all supermarkets charged for carrier bags. They have a cost to produce, so they aren’t free. The large supermarkets started to give away the single use bags to encourage customers in.

The result of this was huge amounts of single use plastic stuck in the environment. If supermarkets want to charge more, then they are entitled to. No one is forcing anyone to buy them.

[redalways]

@Lynch04

My problem with charging for plastic bags, ULEZ/CAZ and other supposedly Government emission reducing schemes, is how much profiteering/hidden tax is made by the treasury/councils on the back of it.

Why? If the tax is meant to discourage use of something with negative externalities, and it’s still being overconsumed, then at the very least hopefully the money can go back to being used for public good. As far as I’m aware, the ULEZ revenue in London goes back to TfL to improve public transport, so it should in theory be a gain anyway, further reducing car use.

I think sometimes people like to see the “government” as some big bad entity that’s again their own interests, instead of a more nuanced picture.

@Lynch04

Morrisons charge 40p for a carrier bag and 25p for a heavy duty paper bag which I think is actually unenforceable.

What do you mean by unenforceable, do you mean people just steal them?

[redalways]

I think it’s constantly being looked at, just that there is no good way to even begin trying to filter out all the different travel purposes to levy any charges on.

I think the best thing to start with is actually a global framework for taxing airplane fuel.

[Bekloppt]

@redalways

trains would have been better for this.

If you want the team arriving at 5pm for a 3pm kick off.

[redalways]

I have a feeling you’d suddenly get a consortium of Premier League club owners banding together to buy UK rail operators…

[Redbj]

you could easily start with frieght.

i get the business vs recreational travel would be tough…but freight…surely thats some low hanging fruit there…

[JU97ICE]

@Aurelio

We could all stop flying and eating meat tomorrow, these are luxuries we don’t need, it would make a significant impact. Driving cars, heating homes, replacing concrete and steel are much more difficult problems to solve but aeroplanes and meat we could just cut out immediately with little impact to quality and longevity of life.

Depends. I have in-laws in Europe. My family live in Australia, as I do, but they live 1800km away in a different state.

Cutting out flying is not even a choice I’d consider. Potentially I could spend the 3 days one-way driving to see my family, but it’s not even a huge saving carbon emissions wise over flying. Not seeing the in-laws is out of the question for my wife and kid’s sake.

I’m fully aware of the obscene carbon cost for a flight to Europe: one trip is the equivalent of an average human’s yearly carbon emissions. But that’s a sacrifice I can’t make. My thinking is probably the average thinking of a human so it’s easy to understand why there isn’t more progress on a human personal level.

[cynicaloldgit]

@redalways

I think sometimes people like to see the “government” as some big bad entity that’s again their own interests, instead of a more nuanced picture.

Certain people see “tax” as a four-letter word.

People who can’t count.

[cynicaloldgit]

@JU97ICE

My thinking is probably the average thinking of a human

And therein lies the problem.

[redalways]

@Redbj

i get the business vs recreational travel would be tough…but freight…surely thats some low hanging fruit there…

I think the issue is one of capacity. Rail expansion is not easily scalable in the modern era, while road capacity expansion has a little more room.

But the point also still stands, should it be that cheap for tat to be flown around the world to get somewhere sooner? There are things which are perishable and for which it’s understandable, but the rest of it?

[cynicaloldgit]

@redalways

There are things which are perishable and for which it’s understandable

Such as?

[RedWhippet]

The bulk of freight globally is moved by ship. Air is actually a very small part of it.

[Dane]

The footprint of one passenger on a long haul flight is pretty low in comparison to their annual footprint through other activities.

[redalways]

Medical supplies? I haven’t done any thorough research into this yet so I can withdraw the claim if you prefer?

[cynicaloldgit]

No need to withdraw anything. I’m interested to know what “tat” (to use your own word) people apparently can’t do without, or cannot be produced domestically.