Forget luxury goods. Here, people are cutting down on necessity goods due to atrocious price spirals. We have switched to a coarser variety of rice and cut down the usage of onion (a basic and essential part of our cooking).
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I understand there is a cap. Itâs the raising of that by such a huge amount that is the concern. What I donât understand, and I admit it maybe naivety on my part, is why France was able to limit the raise to 4% and we saw a 54% rise.
And if the cost of energy isnât covered by what weâve been paying, how come the big energy companies are now reporting such huge profits? Something somewhere doesnât add up. And now youâve got the likes of Octopus asking for ÂŁ1bn to take over Bulb whose collapse has already cost tax payers ÂŁ2bn. How much would it cost to renationalise energy companies and have them run as non-profits? The whole thing stinks.
There should be no need for a decline in living standards in this country. The issue is the distribution of money which taxes should address. But if youâve enough money you can avoid paying your share, a luxury the people hardest hit by things like austerity, tax increases, inflation just canât do.
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canât afford to live but its too expensive to die. what a world.
The cost of energy was being covered until last year when the price of energy suddenly spiked 7-8 times its previous cost due to supply constraints. The cap didnt allow companies to sell to customers for all of that increase, hence why cap keeps rising as it only changes twice a year and is in catch up mode with energy prices increasing further due to Ukraine situation.
It would likely cost at least ÂŁ170bn for Shell and ÂŁ100bn for BP if they are what you are thinkng of. Companies like Centrica would cost upwards of ÂŁ6bn ( before applying any takeover premium).
Not sure about France. Might produce more domestically (through nuclear power?) Or be linked into supply network that we are not. They also nationalised at least one power company when it couldnt handle the costs.
Yes. Weâre going to Pembrokeshire. Havenât flown for five years or so.
I donât know what is acceptable in terms of a flight. Itâs really about what share of our carbon budget we what to spend flying.
People seems to very quickly assume things are fundamental rights - like flying, driving, eating food thatâs out of season,
Travelling by train is actually very doable as well, Iâm looking forward to the new sleeper trains coming up (NightJet, Midnight Trains)
Thatâs what I was referring to when I wrote that the poorest will be hit hardestâŚ
Do you personally have to cut down on necessity goods as well?
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they have a captive audience and provide an essential service.
comparing them to the family business that sells widgets but has had to put its price up to cover external costs is at best, being mischevious
maintain profit margin is not a god given business rightâŚthey could still be profitable by not maintaining marginâŚand as an active investor, i understand the implications to the markets if this happensâŚbut shareholders shouldnt be more important than consumers
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My point that the Earth doesnât give a fuck is that it is a essentially a physical system with boundaries and limits. We canât negotiate with it. We canât appeal to itâs better nature or ask for more time. We canât persuade it that in our case we should be allowed to do something that transgresses itâs limits.
And yet, the response is always ââŚbut I need to driveâ or ââŚbut I need to flyâ. (My response of âtoughâ was in response to @Klopptimist saying people like their hot tubs and so on)
Thatâs nice, but again, the Earth does not give a fuck what we think we need.
In the coming years we will be radically thinking our energy consumption and how our societies work. We can do that by choice, or not. But it is coming, whether we like it or not.
Less people in the first world would help.
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So Centrica is one of the largest energy companies in the UK and would cost approximately 3x what itâs cost the tax payer to cover Bulb going bust, potentially 2x what it cost if Octopus get the ÂŁ1bn they are asking for.
At what point should we stop bailing these companies out and passing customers on to other private companies and just nationalise them instead?
There are a lot of arguments about where the line is when it comes to things like energy usage, flying etc but as a highly developed and rich nation, we should be able to ensure basic access to affordable energy for all.
As Iâve said before, they are quick to raise prices and slow to decrease them again. Look at the current situation with petrol and compare whatâs being charged at the pump now compared to a month ago even though the wholesale price is dropping. There is an element of these companies charging what they think they can get away with rather than what is fair because what they sell is a basic living need. Itâs morally bankrupt.
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Birth rates already falling pretty rapidly. What do you propose?
As you all know, I live in Berlin. My aged (86) mother lives in Sheffield. I try to visit her as often as possible, which is usually 2-3 times a year. Iâd call that essential.
Flying to Manchester and taking the train costs about 250 euros return (was considerably cheaper last year) and takes about 7 hours door to door (flight is only 1.45 of that).
I wouldnât mind taking the train, but having done some research, it would be around twice the price, take 20 hours and involve buying tickets from multiple operators.
There needs to be more coordination between networks and some flexibility on pricing to attract people like me to use the train for this type of journey. It will always be time consuming, so the other factors need to be persuasive.
I donât want to burn the planet, but I donât want to neglect my mum in the last years of her life either.
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The reason that France was able to limit the price increase so much more is simple: UK electricity is so heavily natural gas, where French is nuclear. Even on the domestic heating side, French natural gas demand is much lower per capita than British.
For about a year, energy distribution companies have been making massive losses, blowing their balance sheets out the door to a badly designed cap policy. There wasnât much of a clamour to nationalize those losses, and in fact controversy where it had to happen. Retail energy revenue has been less than wholesale energy cost for a significant part of the past year, even before the Ukraine war spike.
You can renationalize energy companies, but they still need to import gas at a world market price or face a shortage. You deal with the shortage by either increasing the price or using some other allocation mechanism. Neither one is popular. Worse, Britain basically doesnât have natural gas storage in any meaningful sense, so it has no real capacity to build up a reserve now to deal with the next heating season, so the worst price spike is yet to come.
There is absolutely no way you can triple the cost of the primary energy source in an energy-intensive economy, and have no decline in wealth. You can minimize the effect on living standards, but there has to be some for at least some people. It is fantasy to think otherwise - and in fact if you donât harness the price mechanism to force some substituting, the long-term consequences will be worse.
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Both of those companies would likely simply move out of the UK in the face of nationalization, leaving just their UK operations to be nationalized.
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I think that is a legitimate question when the market design is as disastrously poor as it is. Best case scenario now is an oligopoly with no meaningful competition for consumers because all of the surviving distribution companies are just creatures of one of the energy suppliers. Somehow, the UK has managed to develop a market and regulatory structure that appears to be based on the model used for English pubs.
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Iâd rather you flew a few times a year to see your mum, than someone flying for shopping trips and pleasure weekends, but sadly the Earth is not going to distinguish between the two.
My solution would be personal carbon budgets, so if you want to see your mum 2-3 times a year, thatâs what you spend your allowance on. That might mean you have to make sacrifices elsewhere.
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Well, I have a financial budget which takes care of that. Flights have doubled in price in the last 12 months.
While I feel for you, I canât help but feel happier for the environmentâŚ
Like I said, we have either switched to more economic options or we have cut down the consumption.
Fact is, we feel uneasy to keep consuming at the previous level (even though we can afford, till now) when so many are struggling. Another issue is fear for the future. Ours is a Kleptocracy and itâs prudent to fear for the worst.
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