Is it time to change our system?

It is but the opportunities to go past a player are greatly diminished the way most teams are setting up against us, if you even get one on one with a full back, the MF gets in behind. If you try and take the MF on the FB reads the space and there is nothing to run at. This is why our games are becoming so unpleasing on the eye, the opposition are killing the game as @Mascot is suggesting, this is a new low.

Teams come now to just snuff us out, thats their main objective. The Anti-Liverpool tactic.

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There was some interesting analysis on the Anfield Wrapā€™s review show that backs this up. Around pressures on the ball - basically how many times in a game an opposition player tries to win the ball off us. They are massively down, suggesting that there has been a shift in how teams line up against us, and more teams are just playing dead with no interest in trying to play football. Iā€™ll go back and listen to the numbers

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Credit to Klopp really to see the only change he could make to this problem with the squad we have and unfortunately its (a big 9) Origi and (a ball player) Shaq to play the balls in to him; obviously it didnt work, neither of them are good enough.

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Origi isnā€™t. Shaqiris problems have always been how he fits into the system (Klopp seems to have finally got it sorted, although not to positive results yet) and injuries. I donā€™t actually think thereā€™s a problem with Shaqs talent.

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I donā€™t believe thereā€™s a problem with Divā€™s talent. Itā€™s the application that is missing.

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Disagree on this. Even when he was trying hard heā€™d score some bonkers and lucky goals by just never giving up and being in the right place but his all round play always left a lot to be desired. Basically you set up to try and get the play you need out of the rest of the team and leave a space free for him, 9 doing the job of 10. Then thereā€™s a chance he might somehow get you a goal.

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Iā€™m not sure our system needs changing completly,on itā€™s day plan A with the full first team in place,is capable of beating any team on the planet and still is,the issue is itā€™s so finely tuned to having the right players in position,that when you take a cog out of a well oiled machine,it starts to falter,when you lose 4 major players and start moving 1st team players into wrong positions,weā€™re also losing those players skills in other parts of the field,plus using out of form,unplayed bench players to fill in,the machine starts to break down,nobody could see this happening before the season started.

We now have mid/lower table opposition teams playing a low block,2 banks of 4 and 9-10 players crammed into thier box to nullify us and not play football these past 5 games,which is what we built our team to counteract but not having VVD to keep the back in check,with Fabinho holding the midfield,to let our fullbacks bomb forward without having to worry about whats behind them,Hendo barking orders and pushing the team forward from midfield or whipping in crosses/passes into the box,itā€™s put everything out of kilter,especially the forwards.We push players forward and trigger passages of play inside the opponents box,when we donā€™t have those players pushing forward at the right time in the right place,those passages of attacking play arenā€™t coming off,which is why i feel we arenā€™t scoring,even Klopp said itā€™s small details,they just need to keep working on it and attack the right spaces at the right time again.

We donā€™t really have a plan B,even if we did or started changing it mid season,i think weā€™d still get some of the same issues we are having now,itā€™s not like we are being outplayed,weā€™ve dominated almost all of these past 5 games,itā€™s missing injured players,player form and fine margins are costing us this season (plus dodgy reffā€™in),where last year our players were bang on form and things were going for us and weā€™d nick a 1-0 win or 2-1 late on.

I think these past few seasons have spoiled us with thinking we should win every game or weā€™re invincible,even our best teams in the 70ā€™s and 80ā€™s lost or had bad games,we need to accept we are having a bad month (weā€™ve had them for years) but with the players we have atm,they are still a great team,weā€™ve lost form and only 3 games this season,itā€™s not impossible to think we can get our form back and go on a winning run again or the other teams wonā€™t start slipping up or getting big injuries to thier key players.

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Quickly on Salah - I think people sometimes are too quick with the ā€œput him up front in a 4-4-1-1ā€ (deliberately saying 4-4-1-1 instead of 4-2-3-1 because itā€™s what Klopp calls it) idea.

Okay, it did work for a while in a few seasons. Also some games here and there. Sometimes we had to do it (balance, giving him even more freedom, but having more balance behind with the two lines of 4), sometimes we needed his pace and goals more central. But I donā€™t think itā€™s something Klopp would actually build on as his main formation. Salah is playing in his best position at the moment, which is that of being something between a central striker and a winger. A wide attacker.

So, no I wouldnā€™t say itā€™s time to change our system. We can still play with it here and there, change that midfield/attacking structure from 3 to 2. In fact, when you look closely (and remember what Klopp told in one of his embargoā€™s a few months ago), Trentā€™s been told this season not to bomb forward as much (or not all the time in all games) and weā€™ve been using the RCM of the midfield 3 to play with more freedom and more towards the right, allowing Salah to still play high, though Klopp praised his defensive game earlier this season.

What is a system anyway, football is a game of movement all the time, it changes every few seconds. Of course itā€™s important, it allows us to have most players as closely as possible to their best zones. But as we speak of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, thatā€™s only where the players more or less are in a certain moment, in this case then more when weā€™re without the ball defending or in a middle pressure. We attack differently.

For me, itā€™s rarely as dramatic as fans like to portray it. Solutions are always to drop half of the team or always the same individual(s) and/or change the system. Klopp might do some of that, we do some of that all the time in fact, but I donā€™t think he needs to change his main system for most games.

Weā€™ll see what are our changes until May and going into next season. Our CB gamble last summer didnā€™t work, although we did better until now than a lot of people expected, letā€™s be honest (some were calling that our season was finished). In midfield, it unfortunately took half a season for Thiago to finally step in. Heā€™s a top midfielder and weā€™ve seen good portions of that, but both sides need a bit of time to learn how to play together. Up top Jota finally brought some quality as the ā€œ4th bestā€, but then we lost him for a while as well.

Weā€™re in a result crisis, a lot of our game at the moment is still pretty good, but weā€™re complicating things in the final third and our defence is suffering in some moments which is not surprising. I think we continue going forward with more or less the same, we work on our game internally, we raise our form again and going into next season we might see a new face or two as regular starters. Hopefully having the injured players back, too, and finally bringing a CB who can have seasons in a row alongside Virgil. Or at least keep up form and being injury-free longer than the likes of Matip and Gomez.

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He had 3 shots on goal against Burnley but just lacked the belief he would put them away. He got into the positions but lacked the finishing touch.

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Glad to have made you laugh in the midst of this shite going on. Thatā€™s at least something. :wink:

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Why donā€™t we play deep and hit the opponents on the counter? We used to do that in the first season of Mane+Salah.

Itā€™s no use having all that possessions around the opponentsā€™ box and having passes/crosses cleared by their zillions of defenders in the box.

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And this will allow us to make the best out of Phillips and Williams.

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Most clubs come to Anfield for a point, and this would suit them absolutely down to the ground.

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We donā€™t play all our games at Anfield though.

Besides, I have seen that teams are willing to take us on, much like they tested City last season.

I think we have to look at what our lads are being coached to do.
I point at Gomez as evidence. He always played along the ground and played good penetrating balls like that he looked comfortable in possession. Then suddenly he started playing long cross field balls, yes itā€™s a nice weapon to have however, he didnā€™t look comfortable with it and was doing too much and not playing those penetrating through balls or making good passes. It was like it was something he was learning to do in training then sudeenly the pressure was put on him to do it all the time (the long diagonal balls that is). Itā€™s crazy yes by all means train a player a new weapon but why go crazy let him stay where yhe feels comfortable. Itā€™s not as if we havenā€™t other players who are already comfortable with long diagonal balls like VVD, TAA, Henderson. Ginis also added this to his game yet rarely over does it.
This is just one example. The coaching seems to be pushing us in a poor direction at the moment. Before it was pushing us in the right direction. Now as we have the players we need to get the balance right. Our attack uses to many sideway passes, juast too many passes altogether. Simplify it and fucking shoot.
Also formation is not system itā€™s still 11 players on the pitch. Our system is fine as long as we donā€™t over complicate things in possession and press well when we loose it. These are 2 things recently we just are not getting right. All well and good increasing training intensity but it does fuck all if itā€™s the wrong type of training just sinks you farther into the pit.
So get the pressing back to top level and increase movement off the ball in possession and simplify it rather than changing things drastically.
4231 is just 433 with a double pivot if you give certain players freedom it becomes the same thing more or less. Or 4411 is the same as 4231 these are our main go to formations we know them. You just can not have more than 11 players on the pitch.

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