Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool Legend

No way Robbo’s season goes in the same conversation as Trent’s.

Robbo is a much more limited player yes, Trent’s game is not all about numbers, but overall, Robbo’s had a more solid season.

He’s had some bad games and bad actions on the pitch, but he still manages to play close to his ceiling more often than not. Which is what I want from any player.

And also, he’s been basically without a proper “partner” in front of him on the left side for a lot of the time this season, Diaz, Jota, etc.

I have zero problems with Robbo, the situation at LB is pretty good with him and Tsimikas. One day Robbo might hit a wall and have a drastic drop, but we’ll see when we get there.

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Also last 2-4 games Kostas has actually played he hasn’t been all that good.

There was an argument at some points last season but I don’t think he is the better player.

Robertson I would actually put down to the amount he has played with others I’m really not sure.

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Tsimikas is an excellent backup but he has never been as good as Robertson. There is a valid argument that he should play more but Klopp will always prefer his tried and trusted players in games like yesterday’s not out of favouritism but because he believes in said players.

Unfortunately, his belief has been misplaced many times this season.

His explanation made no sense. They weren’t even that threatening from the left side like with Vinicius on the opposing flank. Second game in a row his subs visibly worsen the situation instead of improving it. He too needs to get his head straight.

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Again, I can’t comment about Bournemouth because I didn’t watch it, but I think a view like that discounts the effect that Ancelotti’s substitutions made.

I didn’t think that the substitutions made us worse, necessarily, but I can see the logic. It’s not about playing defensively, but it’s about optimising your probability of getting the goal. You can’t get the goal if you don’t have the ball (most of the time, at least), and if you’re not able to be effective defensively, that already negates a lot of the potency you can have in attack, since you can’t win the ball back.

I think our main problem at the moment is pretty much the same problem we’ve had for most of the season, which isn’t effort. It’s belief. At no point did we look like we were playing in a way that looked confident. It’s not on Alisson, but you can see that the moment we conceded that second goal at Anfield, the mental hill became a mental mountain.

My read is that we’re not going to see a massive improvement in performances, not until the season is over. Then, regardless of whether we’ll get new players in or not, it’s likely that we’ll have some improvement, with the whole mental burden of this shitshow of a season behind us. It’s just not working mentally for so many of our players at this moment, and although so many want to throw the blame here, there, and everywhere, it’s a collective failure, but one for which I don’t even necessarily blame anyone. It was inevitable that last season’s disappointments would have an effect, and if we managed to start this season alright, the drop-off might not have been so bad. However, the injuries only served to compound our issues, and it’s really quite hard to see how you fight your way out of that without at least some luck going your way, which we hadn’t really had for most of the season.

Maybe Nunez was taken off because he wasn’t following the tactics Jurgen gave him to do…!

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Because he is meant to be part of the leadership group and his form has dropped off a cliff. He continually stops attacks by passing backwards and his crossing/corners are very very low quality. He’s not even defending well.

So yes I’d lump him in with players who used to be 7-8 minimum a game, now do 3-4 with a 9/10 every 10 games.

Yep thats why I questioned his reasons

Yeah this a nonsense really. You’re getting a bit dramatic.

Let’s not confuse playing below par with not caring which is what you’re doing.

I’d be shocked if Trent after caring since aged 18 suddenly stopped caring now. He admitted that his weakness when he was younger was getting frustrated if things didn’t go his way. The youth coaches worked on that.

To my mind there’s a couple of things that have contributed to this season.

  1. The midfield has been allowed to get old and we carry to many injury prone players. I don’t know if that’s Klopp’s,FSG’s or both their fault.
  2. I’m not sure what our tactics are. I saw a video of how we used to press. We were like wild animals pouncing on players in 2’s n 3’s. Now we press like pussy cats.

What I am sure of is that the players care.

I think we need 3 minimum in midfield. For me that’s the priority. I think our defense can get by next season if we can’t get 3 mids and a defender.

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O hark fucking irony, I think you are getting confused and twisting words.

Who said anything about caring? Lack of desire can be many things - Fatigue, over-confidence, lack of challenge, loss of motivation, victim of winning everything…

I never once said above the players don’t care, I reiterate some of our leadership core has gone stale and needs refreshing to bring in fresh ideas and fresh energy and desire to win things.

There is a big gap between telling yourself you care vs doing what is necessary to get the outcome you supposedly care about. It’s the old Marvin Haglerism of it being tough to get out of bed at 5am to roadwork when you’ve been sleeping in silk PJs. You’d be naive to not be conscious of that creeping in to a group that has largely been together since 2018.

The other issue though is that when athletes are knackered the result can look indistinguishable from not caring. People seem to have this idea that a fatigued player will play fine for 60 mins and then fade, but in reality what it looks like is someone who is just not able to hit the usual heights from the first whistle.

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This is primarily my point, the core group has been allowed to grow old together and I’d argue some in that group are letting it affect them more than others, and as you say it’s a malaise which spreads bloody quickly.

well said.

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Hehehe calm down, you sound like you’re an angry person.

No one’s confused or twisting words, you’ve said umpteen times some of the players attitudes stink. If that doesn’t mean they don’t care then you’ve not explained yourself properly.

As regards the rest of your post, I agree 100%. The group has been allowed to grow old/stale. There’s a balance to be had in Klopp’s ethos. Last season should have been the final hurrah for most of the midfield. Definately as starters anyway.

“Every moment of the season had its reason. Today was attitude on the field, maybe because of the first game. Coming here and beating Real Madrid with all the history is difficult,”

“Difficult to create the expectation of qualifying. But I’m wearing the shirt of Liverpool, playing against Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu and the least I have to do is give my best. I believe I gave my best, I leave with my head held high.

“But as a team we have a lot more to do. There were injuries, which hurt us for sure, now we only have one player out and that’s no longer an excuse.

“We had an incredible game with Manchester United, soon after against Bournemouth and here we didn’t play enough to tie the game. We lacked attitude, a lot on our part.

The only player who has performed at their level this season, his own words. I leave it there.

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Ok. Only 1 player cares. Everyone else doesn’t. Also nothing to do with according to your own words;

Just wanted to pop into the thread to say Jurgen Klopp is ace. I’m glad he is our manager, and there’s no one I’d rather have to lead us forward. I hope minor investment kicks in, or the owners cover it with a loan, and we spend a good amount in summer to build out the new side that is emerging, so that we can challenge for the league title again.

I want to comment on Jurgen’s loyalty, as I do think he has a fault there, but it is a minor fault that needs to be examined to give the full picture.

The upside of loyalty is that generally it fosters a great spirit in the group, and players will run through brick walls for you. We have hit the heights over the years under Jurgen, and a good part of that has been down to his loyalty. He believes in his players. They believe in him. And a synergy happens that takes the team to a great place.

Looking at it this season, I think it is more that they are knackered, mentally, physically, and a few are too old or too injured. I think the midfield aspect of recent recruitment has been lacking, so the whole team looks off. It’s a bit of a shitstorm of several factors.

To my eyes, rather than saying they have stopped playing for Klopp, or have a bad attitude or whatever, too many of them are just spent.

One other thing about loyalty is that if players are going to move on, a buyer is needed! If it is a highly paid Liverpool player, the pool of teams who will take on the wages is small. Then let’s remember that we are talking about a player who is getting close to being a spent force, hence the conversation about loyalty and moving them on. At that point who is going to sign such a player and pay their wages? Presumably other teams have scouts and they will want hungry players with more mileage left in their legs.

As an example, let’s look at the list of potential suitors for Fabinho in the summer. Most people would look at him and say that his form and energy have declined alarmingly. So what if he isn’t sold in the summer? Is that because Klopp is too loyal to Fabinho, or because we didn’t get a suitable offer? And so because there was no suitable offer, we decided to keep him around, in the hope that he can add something closer to what he showed before, rather than paying for the privilege of moving him on and perhaps even subsidizing his wages to have him play elsewhere.

I know this is a Hypothetical future example, but I’m just chipping away at the loyalty thing. It is a factor, such as Henderson’s contract which is too generous, but overall I don’t think it is as big a factor as we might think.

One other thing that comes to mind on loyalty is Naby Keita. Klopp pursued him and added him from the Bundesliga, paying in advance for the privilege, to some fanfare. He was a £55M man. Prime age. Should be helping to carry the midfield department, aided by old timers and young up and comers. Last night we were going up against Real Madrid, and we were depleted. But Klopp showed absolutely no loyalty to Naby Keita, probably because he hasn’t been nearly good enough for us, and so Klopp sat him on the bench and he watched.

Klopp can sometimes be cold and ruthless too, to my eye.

Anyway, I do believe Klopp has a minor fault with loyalty. But I don’t think it is as big a fault as some would say, especially when you break it down.

This summer there will be a broom sweeping through the squad. Not so drastic as to cut our nose off to spite our face, as we won’t have the unlimited funds to do that.

But I suspect there will be a fair old list of exits, and perhaps even one or two surprises among them.

Klopp is building a new Liverpool side and I hope he gets the backing required to do some significant business this summer.

Keep shining Jurgen! We are with you.

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Is that Alisson?

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Wasn’t being too loyal said about Shanks, that he let his first great team age together?

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Yep. Bob was more ruthless in that regard or he learnt from Shanks.

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But he did rebuild with great success after 1970.

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