Very well said. No truer words ever spoken.
You said something similar in the Everton thread, hence my inference that you meant that if we maintain a proper moral standard everyone needs to…
We should just do what’s right, regardless of any expectation that others will do the same.
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Love this, Kopstar.
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I think a lot of people just disengage their brains at football, and go along with the emotions and ‘banter’. That’s why this is such a brilliant show of leadership from Klopp. While I’m sure not everyone chanting this were homophobes, now that the boss has called it out there’s absolutely no excuse
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Well yes, they can no longer claim that they have no clue.
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My point on the Everton thread stands.
Condemnation of homophobic chants is fair and required. But why stop there?
Clubs whose fans engage in derogatory “murderers” or “bin dippers” dialogue should surely also condemn this behaviour?
At no point did I say, nor infer that we should only behave when others do the same. I think it is reasonable to suggest a global response to discrimination though.
But I honestly think its pipe dream stuff. There is an air of intolerance in society that is ingrained.
And sadly the very vehicle we use to discuss these issues, social media, is the greatest weapon of the bigots, racists, homophobes and haters.
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Society is much more tolerant than it was 20 or 30 years ago, when monkey noises reverberated around some stadiums and the Chelsea chant wouldn’t even have been questioned. It will continue to become more tolerant with the next generation. Ultimately we’re only responsible for our own actions
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The wording used was poor then. It seemed you were saying we will stop if it means others do to. Each of these instances needs to be seen as a separate fight against unacceptable behaviour. This is one involving us. Regardless of anything else changing or not changing that should change this one is within our power to change. We fix this and the world is a slightly better place for a group of people. Then onto the next fight. One step at a time. Might take years or even hundreds of years but it’s the right thing to do no matter how much or little it might achieve.
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I am just piggy backing onto your post and response to Quicksand (QS). I don’t know the whole history of your conversation but QS has a very valid point about social media. My take on QS point it is that you do have a minority of people online who are very much racist, homophobic, etc and openly want to inflict hate. However, in my opinion (please dont jump on me) there are a lot of people who have low self esteem - for example the lad in Plymouth who referred to himself as an ‘Incell’ and shot 5 people dead - and get off on making themselves feel better by belittling someone else to make them feel a better person, safe in the knowledge that the person they abuse is not gonna punch them in the face. Its sad but true.
I will hold my hands up and say that (albeit, without chanting the said chant) I was probably a bit naive to the fact that the language used was offensive. I didn’t really pay it much attention to consider the undertones of the chant.
In response to your comment, I believe you meant to say ‘intolerant’ in that they dont accept the actions of others - maybe I read it wrong - and I completely agree with this. People are a lot more liberal but will still revert to stereotype without trying to be offensive. I think we are moving in the right way but still have a long way to go. I know some people criticise the statement of ‘educating people’ but I believe this is one of the best ways to progress.
I am actually glad this issue has been raised as it has created discussion.
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Or the interpretation of words can skew the original meaning.
To be fair, I have said this in a couple of threads, some of which are deleted. I didnt say or infer that “we will be good when everyone else is good” or “if we behave then everyone else should”. If the wording was poor enough to suggest then I humbly apologise.
My point remains that there is (in football) a global educational responsibility. And in society.
But also, I won’t hold my breath that it will be achieved.
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This is probably the important bit, I like you didn’t put two and two together, despite it not being a song Ive sang before.
The principle is, knowing now the lgbt community find it offensive any normal person would want to stop signing it.
The above is completely independent from other clubs singing some pretty vile stuff also. As kopstar points out we should lead by example.
I wonder what some of the faux outrage people feel about some elements of our fan base mocking Munich btw?
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I think its abhorrent. And in thinking that I recognise that it was/is sung in the context of bitter rivalry and abhorrent chants by Utd fans.
I also recognise your “faux outrage” comment as provocative and unnecessary.
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I’m just not 100% sure why there’s any push back on the issue.
Fair enough, you may not have realised it was offensive, you may have sung it thinking it had a different context, it may be that other clubs also sing offensive chants.
But once it’s called out as offensive, and condemned by the club, lgbt groups, kick it out and the gaffer and explained why it’s offensive, unhelpful and should be consigned to the past, there are still people doing their best ‘whataboutisms’, downplaying it, even saying they’ll still sing it because they don’t sing it with that meaning and it’s just banter.
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Need to remember as well how many people in the sport keep their sexuality private till later, if they ever reveal it. There could well be players on the pitch affected and having to try and pretend they are fine. Maybe even ours. Our idols and heroes.
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Nothing fake/false about it. Mocking Munich and Hillsborough is a disgrace and it needs to end. United matches have another level of hatred that I have felt uncomfortable with at times. Totally different atmosphere to other games. Part of that is to do with singing about the death of other human beings
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This may have been covered, but I stumbled upon this photo when reading about Fab’s father passing…I find the facial resemblance STRIKING (aside from one being female and the other not).
RIP and thank you, Mrs. Klopp, for what you brought to the world — particularly your only son.
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End of the day the club has asked for it not to be repeated the manager has and I am sure at some point the players have.
You let them down if you continue to engage with it, as I said it’s was unnecessary when we have such a great song book.
Other teams sing shockingly awful shit because they haven’t got anything beyond “come on you inset colour”
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Ye no need for the Chelsea RB chant anymore I 100% agree
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“It’s not a pure tactical thing – moving here, moving there – there’s fire.
Truly the boss of all bosses!