Is there a particular outcome that you have optimism for?
The pessimists can easily see that it might be a fine, or possibly a transfer ban for a window, and at the most, a modest points deduction that won’t really hurt them. Those sort of modest punishments are on the pessimist side of the line.
What sort of cautiously optimistic outcome do you have in mind?
Genuinely wondering.
I know being kicked out of the Premier League is a possible sanction. I don’t know what happens below the Prem. Would they go to the bottom of the pile, or simply one level down, ready to jump straight back up?
Stripping titles is another possibility.
A points deduction would be very unsatisfactory, to me, as that only affects one campaign, while their alleged financial cheating has been a systematic thing over many years.
Anyway, just wondering what you think will happen to them?
Stripped of all titles since first allegation date.
Incoming Transfer ban for 5 seasons.
Mandatory sale of players to align to financial standing
Demotion to First Division, with immediate effect.
Start first season in First Division minus thirty points.
European ban.
What will happen:
Strongly worded letter
Minus two points next season.
Fine that will equate to price of two Ferraris.
I know this was asked of Mascot but my opinion is that the PL have boxed themselves in here. If they’re somehow found innocent then surely they would have to show their findings (because just about everyone non City affiliated know they’re guilty as sin). If found guilty then there is no way they can just give a points deduction and fine. If they do that they’re telling every other owner they can spend what they want, make their club successful for years, win trophies/titles then pay this penalty and all is fine. Every state and Sheik will want a PL club.
WHEN (not if) they’re found guilty i believe they will demote them and strip them of their unfairly gained trophies (though i personally don’t think they’ll give the runners up the titles/trophies). The main problem here is that unless they’re made to sell players City will just walk the Championship that year and be back near the top of the PL the following year. Hopefully though a few players (and Pep) will force their way out and sticking to FFP as a championship team will prove impossible if they want to sign anyone any good.
If they do end up being found guilty and punished every club that’s been shafted should be lining up at the door demanding a payout i.e. The club that finished 2nd, the club that finished 5th, the club that got relegated by 2 points after getting pounded 10 - 0 on aggregate over a season, the club that got knocked out of a cup, the club that lost out on a cup, the club that didn’t make it to the Europa league, the club that finished 3rd in their CL group. The damages could, and should, run into billions.
Everyone demanding their pound of flesh after a guilty verdict will damage them just as much. I may be a little too optimistic but I’m hoping that they get their just desserts and sink into oblivion with sharks circling all around.
Not really, I just have optimism they will be found guilty.
We know that nothing is off the table regarding punishment, and personally I would like to see expulsion from the Premier League. But I don’t know if the league would go that far. At an absolute minimum it would be a transfer ban and a points deduction, but it should go beyond that.
One thing that isn’t discussed is the measured that should be in place to prevent them reoffending. I would be looking at control of their financial affairs - so all sponsorship deals should have values set by an intermediary and paid to a third party before reaching City, and payments to players and stuff should be similarly done via a third party.
Again, why even come up with 115 charges? Why even invest in the millions likely that were needed to set up this task force looking into club finances? The reason is because the PL is effectively run by the clubs and there is consensus (outside of City, Newcastle and previously Chelsea) that they want action to be taken to ensure fairness in the competition.
This is not a spur-of-the-moment decision to charge the club. This is years in the making. They are serious. That doesn’t mean the army of City lawyers won’t find another loophole, but I think the PL are serious.
I hadn’t thought about @wyld.at.hrt 's angle though about action being taken from individual clubs. But in any case, whether City are hurt from the charges in terms of it snowballing into further individual charges is not the PL’s problem.
Let’s be honest though. Whether the PL and even City (not likely!) want this over with quickly it’s not going to happen. If the charges stick, City are 100% going to appeal. And then appeal if that appeal fails. We have years of this uncertainty.
My concern is that the punishment won’t fit the crime. They’ve been allowed to build themselves up to be the strongest side in world football. That ultimately needs to be fully dismantled in my opinion. They can’t be allowed to be given a punishment that they shrug off and get back to where they are now in a year or two.
I think some of the charges in this 115 are actually for non-cooperation post-2018 (to I guess 2019 when this particular investigation ended?). I obviously hope the other charges stick but I also hope these non-cooperation ones come to something. City are clearly not going to change. Which is why they need a hard fucking boot. No remorse and they can fuck right off.
Tbh it’s quite easy for the premier League to call, they will have I’m sure the support of uefa in some forms but the reason they need to go after them is simple.
Either punish them severely or be weak and don’t, if it’s the latter, the cashcow that they are use to that is the premier league is over.
PL and Uefa are not worth the money fans pay etc, football is officially dead and becomes the modern day Polo…an elite sport owned by billionaires, and if that’s the case they can have their super euro/world league that they and John Henry so crave.
But as that happens the premier league will fade into irrelevance…unless they do something about it now.
I think the common question being asked is why the PL want these charges to succeed. City in fact raise the stature of the PL and have in part made it the strongest league in the world.
But factor in that football is such an archaic, anti-competitive sport. In pretty much every European league (and likely most leagues in the world) are dominated by only a couple of clubs.
Compare that to most other sports in the world who have had a large group of winners or at least different finalists: The sports I usually watch (Aussie) Rugby League, Aussie Rules, NBA. They all have a big mix each year. Is that to do with rule changes or a natural progression of the sport? In Aussie rules, I think the way the subs rule and creating a fast paced match of short bursts of energy means that the comp isn’t just won by the team with the biggest and strongest forwards and backs like it used to be. In cricket, the rules often change to balance the competitiveness of the bowlers and batters.
I’ve gone off on a tangent here but I think its in football’s interests to make it, at least appear, that everyone has a chance. Having a club funded by a state with limitless financial potential who is circumventing the rules is something that runs against that grain.
Dunno at the end of the day people like John Henry are there to make money and a super League with Europe’s elite (which we are a part of) would be something that would generate them a load of dosh plus they would have been secured in revenue for years to come etc.
The only problem is , that Europe’s elite want it so they can then be ring fenced from the real tragedy of the oil nations states steam rolling over the established order…city Newcastle psg etc that not just brought titles and ruined the transfer market to which we now have to pay stupid money for because we need ex player…who could have cost £20 million but now thanks to city we have to pay £60 million just because they may buy him to sit on the bench.
I don’t know the answer to how do we stop the rot, and it’s almost ironic that we seem to be reliant on the premier League to take action since they oversaw a lot of it in previous years .
It would be a good thing, and who knows, they’d maybe even agree to that, as they have now based themselves on a very sound financial footing, and can now compete at the top without further financial cheating.
Thing is, they would never have got at this stage without cheating their way to the top…
But surely, if they agreed to this, they 'd ask for all other clubs to receive the same treatment, no?
The thing that is most misunderstood about the Super League is that it was motivated by greed. I suppose it does come down to money, but the nuance is a lot more complicated.
All the clubs had different reasons for signing up
City and PSG aren’t bothered about money. In fact a status quo whereby they can continue to financially blow everyone else out of the water is probably preferable. However, what they crave is legitimacy. They want to sit at the top table with the likes of Real and Barca and be considered equals.
Clubs like Barca, Real and Juve were clearly in need of a short term cash injection, to stave off serious problems.
Arsenal and Spurs saw it as a way to get back into the elite from a long way back
And so on.
For Liverpool and for John Henry (and I think Utd fall into this camp too) I think it came down to two things.
Firstly, in the documents you can see John Henry’s hand in those documents where it talks about salary caps, financial fairness and regulation. John Henry bought Liverpool on the back of an assumption that FFP would level football, and he backs himself to compete with anyone on a fair playing field. I think John Henry’s enthusiasm was largely in response to the failure of European FFP and a desire to bring greater regulation to the game.
Secondly, Henry has always had a bee in his bonnet about TV rights (which was also the driving force behind Project Big Picture) and he would like Liverpool to have greater control over it’s broadcast rights. He feels it is unfair that Liverpool’s global popularity is not able to be leveraged and is instead used to prop up lesser teams. He saw The Super League as a means of pushing this.
Seen through this context, I fully understand why John Henry wanted to pursue the super league, and I really don’t hold it against him, even if on balance I didn’t really like the Super League project. I think fans would do well to remember this when they are demanding more (more more) money be spent on players.