My ex-boss who was a Chelsea fan sorta switched off supporting them once Chelsea got taken over. Was a season ticket holder I think
He doesn’t see much football now.
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I think PL football fans are going to be disappointed with the City investigation outcome. City’s clout and power transcend football. Political scheming and manipulation are prevalent in this situation, particularly if the government empowers an independent regulatory body.
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Hopefully the titles they got during those years will be taken from them,otherwise it’s all been worth what they did to gain an advantage
Juventus got striped of two titles and was relegated for match fixing.
For me it’s a similar scale if not larger. Everton were cooperative. Evertons accounts where out by under £20M and they were transparent.
Contrast that with City. We are talking about hundreds of millions. A club accused of giving side contracts to players and managers (See Mancini). They are accused of over inflating sponsorship contracts at the same time under reporting their costs. For years they have been obstructive and uncooperative. Coupled with a belligerence and disregard.
Whilst it could be argued that Everton were trying to stretch covid rules to their maximum. It is clear City have cheated and tried to cover it up.
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I don’t think overspending against financial regulations is going to be perceived as harshly as match fixing, and I don’t really think it should be. It should be dealt with harshly, but I am sure that the PL is hesitating over the idea of even stripping titles. Slapping Everton hurts the bitters. Slapping City hurts the league. It will take some courage, and even then I simply don’t expect ManC to face a multiseason sanction. The only mechanism I can think of that was not a single sanction immediately applied is from American college sport, where offenders often lose a number of scholarships (i.e. number of players they are allowed to offer scholarships) over a multiple year period.
I am resigned to the fact they while they may not just get a token slap, and might face real consequences, it will still not be sufficient to make it not worth having done it.
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And Man City slapping the league by cheating doesnt hurt the league?
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Oh, I agree. Over the last few years, every year when it comes time to renew my coverage subscription I ask whether or not I will bother. But that is a slow wearing away, versus the embarrassment of rendering multiple years vacant and kicking one of the big ‘names’ out of the circle.
I don’t think so. Cheaters have a great team, but they don’t bring anything to the table like Liverpool, Arsenal, United. Slapping Cheaters will actually boost the league, suddenly there would be 3-4 clubs competing for the title.
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Quick Recap of the Charges:
The punishment handed down to Everton is in response to one charge. Man City were referred to an independent panel in February for an alleged 115 breaches of league rulings between the period of 2009 and 2018. A five-year investigation from the league presented them with several different claims against the club.
During that period, City would win three Premier League titles, an FA Cup, and three League Cups, while such an inevitably raises further questions about Man City’s dealings during an even more successful period, which are not the subject of investigation, over the past five seasons.
Like Everton, Liverpool are obviously one of the sides watching how this investigation unfolds with great interest. Not only do Man City’s 2013/14 Premier League title and 2016 League Cup win come at their expense, but any punishment handed to the club will surely hinder their title and Champions League credentials in the future.
In terms of potential punishments, the independent commission impose a points deduction in the a point deduction in the Premier League - just like Everton - or even worse yet, expulsion from English football’s top-flight.
Other potential punishments include; Suspend a club from playing league matches, recommend that league matches be replayed, order compensation, cancel or refuse registration of players, conditional punishment, order the club to pay costs. They could also make such other orders as it thinks fit, with it unclear if historical trophies won by City could be reassigned.
One thing’s for sure though. If one proven charge results in a 10-point deduction, which is already record-breaking in the Premier League, the 115 charges facing Man City ensure any punishment they face, if found guilty, will be a lot more severe.
But what are the 115 charges Man City are currently facing? The Premier League confirmed them in an official statement back in February. They wrote:
In accordance with Premier League Rule W.82.1, the Premier League confirms that it has referred a number of alleged breaches of the Premier League Rules by Manchester City Football Club ( Club ) to a Commission under Premier League Rule W.3.4.
Details of the Premier League Rules that the Club is alleged to have breached are as follows:
1. In respect of each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those seasons that required provision by a member club to the Premier League, in the utmost good faith, of accurate financial information that gives a true and fair view of the club’s financial position, in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs, namely:
(a) for Season 2009/10, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72, C.75 (amended to C.79 from 10 September 2009 for the remainder of Season 2009/10) and C.80;
(b) for Season 2010/11, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(c) for Season 2011/12, Premier League Rules B.13, E.3, 4, E.11 and E.12;
(d) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11 and E.12;
(e) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rules 15, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.49;
(f) for Season 2014/15, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(g) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(h) for Season 2016/17, Premier League Rules16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51; and
(i) for Season 2017/18, Premier League Rules B.16, 3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51.
2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and
(b) each of Seasons 2010/11 to 2015/16 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of player remuneration in its relevant contracts with its players, namely:
(1) for Seasons 2010/11 and 2011/12, Premier League Rules K.12 and K.20;
(2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.20;
(3) for Seasons 2013/14 and 2014/15, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.19; and
(4) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules T.13 and T.20.
3. In respect of each of Seasons 2013/14 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to comply with UEFA’s regulations, including UEFA’s Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, namely:
(a) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rule B.14.6; and
(b) for Seasons 2014/15 to 2017/18 inclusive, Premier League Rule B.15.6.
4. In respect of each of the Seasons 2015/16 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons on Profitability and Sustainability, namely:
(a) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules E.52 to E.60; and
(b) for Seasons 2016/17 and 2017/18, Premier League Rules E.53 to E.60.
5. In respect of the period from December 2018 to date, the Premier League Rules applicable in the relevant Seasons requiring a member club to cooperate with, and assist, the Premier League in its investigations, including by providing documents and information to the Premier League in the utmost good faith, namely:
(a) for Season 2018/19, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(b) for Season 2019/20, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(c) for Season 2020/21, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(d) for Season 2021/22, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16; and
(e) for Season 2022/23, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16.
Commissions are independent of the Premier League and member clubs. The members of the Commission will be appointed by the independent Chair of the Premier League Judicial Panel, in accordance with Premier League Rules W.19, W.20 and W.26.
The proceedings before the Commission will, in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82, be confidential and heard in private. Under Premier League Rule W.82.2, the Commission’s final award will be published on the Premier League’s website
This confirmation is made in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82.1. The Premier League will be making no further comment in respect of this matter until further notice.
City have always vehemently denied the charges. A statement issued by the club following the publication of the charges said: "Manchester City Football Club is surprised by the issuing of these alleged breaches of the Premier League rules, particularly given the extensive engagement and vast amount of detailed materials that the EPL has been provided with.
“The club welcomes the review of this matter by an independent Commission, to impartially consider the comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence that exists in support of its position. As such we look forward to this matter being put to rest once and for all.”
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Simply stripping City of titles will invalidate about a decade of PL play, that is quite damaging to the prestige of the league.
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This is absolutely true - and the reason why I think that nothing too serious will happen to them, aside from them being able to pay the world’s best lawyers and pay off others who need to be paid off - but is it more damaging to have a rich man’s Bundesliga scenario in PL (or Serie A scenario from 2010 to 2020, which surely contributed to the deterioration of the quality of the league)?
There was a fascinating exchange in the Everton case that feels almost more made to City than to Everton. One of Everton’s arguments was they were creative with their accounting and that being so is the job of a person running the books the same way you tax accountant tries to get you your most beneficial end of year return. The PL resolutely rejected that saying that part of the agreement is that figures must be presented in good faith and part of their punishment was based on the fact that everton did not comply with that.
Given how much of City’s collections of charges are due to obfuscation as much as overspending that seems pretty ominous.
I think the counter to this is that City are the ultimate modern football team - lots of attention from “consumers” simply because they have top players who people want to watch, but very few fans who watch them because of love for City. More and more this sort of thing is recognized as how modern football works - no one is a PSG fan but plenty of people are Mbappe fans. I think what that means is City could experience the nuclear option and few people would care. It wouldn’t stop fans being able to spend their money paying to watch Haaland, they’d just be doing so for him playing for Real, and very people who pay money really give a shit about what shirt he’s wearing.
Factor in how much of their revenue is artificial and they are faced with a situation of having to start again in a way that clubs like Juve didnt have to - a club with an authentic stature not propped up by pretend money who retained relevance and fan affection even after losing most of their star players…
Importantly, this is not just a simple overspending case. As mentioned above, a significant amount of the charges related to the measures put in place to get around the restrictions. The coordinated organizational level implementation of those measures put this far closer to match fixing than to simple exceeding the spending cap
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The higher the punishment imo helps the prestige of the league. At this stage they have, if not for Liverpool, directed the PL towards the competitive nature of the BL, Ligue 1, etc. Punishing them severely will bring them inline with the rest of the teams that have been playing within the rules (Other plastics excluded)
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The flaunting of financial rules may not equate to match fixing, but it produces the same outcome…winning matches by irregular means.
Bribing refs and opposition teams vs Stockpiling top players to beat said teams by nefarious process?
And you know there are opinions on how they mysteriously get the odd decision from refs…
Being seen to reward cheating if you can get away with it for long enough does as much damage.I doubt very much if City being stripped of their titles for the past 10 years will have much bearing on them or the league.Currently there is no other national league to take over top spot so while some may question the previous steps put in to stop teams doing what city have,severe punishment by showing there is nothing to be gained should ensure it doesn’t happen again .
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This i think could be a fairly key point in regards to any punishment as the rest of the clubs could use this as grounds to expell City from the P/L for being deceitful towards the rest of the league, especially as it covers a number of seasons
Anything less than the following:
Titles stripped
Relegation by two divisions
Transfer ban for five years
Independent monitoring of all financial affairs
£1 billion fine
Is less than serious.
Finish them, cheating cunts.
I don’t want their titles, fuck that.
I just want them obliterated
Edit
Anything less than a serious set of punishments should have all other PL cubs refuse to play them.
Boycott them, no home or away matches.
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City and their fans won’t see a big fine and 20/30 points deduction as a big deal,they will see it as being worth it compared to what they have got over the past 15 yrs.In that way this would not be a punishment for them.Their fans will say “they had to deduct points in order to give other a chance” and the club will in private say “1 seasons punishment in order to get where they are now is an easy price to pay”.
In order to make them pay for what they have done you have to hit their reputation and delegitimise what they have"achieved" since the owners have come in and take it away from them so they cannot say they deserved those titles.
I would be happy with all their achievements since 2008 being made void as no amount of a fine would damage them financially,a short term transfer ban doesn’t mean the players they have loaned around the world can’t be brought back and used and a points deduction will only damage their chances in the year it is given.
Damage their reputation and show them up for the cheats they are.
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That’s my feeling as well. They are too powerful and play too big a role in the PL now to see them getting a proper reckoning.
I obviously hope that I’m wrong on that, but since I follow LFC, I’ve never seen the PL and FA reps display real courage or intellectual consistency. So why would it be different now? As we speak, the game is totally corrupted, and I fear that there is no coming back from that, at least as long as the billions are in it.
Honestly, I’m not even sure that they’ll get a points deduction big enough to keep them out of the CL places. I’d be very surprised if they got such a punishment to be honest.
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You’re forgetting that the Premier League is made up of the 20 member clubs for that particular season, and no one has a given right to be there, you need to be invited.
If they are found guilty of the charge relating to acting in good faith, then the other 19 clubs could look at not inviting them due to a lack of confidence that they will play by the rules everyone else plays by.