Who won the league in the years prior to Rijkaard’s last one, which was an utter failure, says nothing about the state of the team he passed on to his successor. They were a mess and not getting better without serious and ballsy renovations.
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thats a great team Barca had then,
would have hated to face them in a European competition! 
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What it says is basically La Liga is a 2 horse race. 2 massively rich clubs with the odd surprise thrown up. No club can win every tournament every year. Doesn’t mean Pep inherited a poor team.
In which they’d just come third.
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I don’t know the ins and outs of the situation but you could say the same about us this season and the two season previous to this one.
That Barcelona squad was still packed with world class talent wasn’t it - Valdes, Puyol, Marquez, Abidal, Iniesta, Xavi, Yaya Toure, Messi, Henry, Eto…Thiago, Pedro, Pique and Busquets coming through, amongst others. Very much a squad destined for greatness.
If anybody was to take over from Klopp next year with this squad I’d expect them to be challenging for the title.
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Taken out of context? Much.
Barca’s 2008 1st 11 which Pep used when he took over:
Valdes, Alves, Puyol, Abidal, Piqué, Xavi, Yaya Touré, Iniesta, Messi, Henry, Et’o.
Last season LFC won the league, this season we finished 3rd. Are you not expecting us to fight for the title next season?
If a top quality manager came in now and replaced Klopp are you saying we need a massive and balsy overhaul?
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Look, I’ve laboured the point enough. It was a bit of a joke as everyone was belittling Pep.
Did you see that post? Saying war and peace wasn’t a cheap dig, it was bang on. I didn’t know where or how to respond. It was all over the show.
I was joking that Zoran would come to his defence.
I actually agree with Zoran on Pep’s ability as a coach but not on his limitations. For Pep to do what he does, he needs to spend a lot of money. He has also never started a project at a big/rich club. Only my opinion of course.
Example: If Pep had taken over LFC at the time Klopp did, I don’t think Pep would have got the success out of LFC that Klopp has, with the resources Klopp has had.
We know this cos at Bayern he got no where near a Champions league in a one horse race league since Klopp (wow funny coincidence that) left the Bundesliga.
Yes, I did. That’s not the point here, is it. If you thought Zoran’s post was too long, just scroll by and ignore it.
Having had two admins say that you should wind your neck in and think about how you react to other posters, don’t you think you should do that?
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Do you really think this is belittling Zoran?
Or me needing to be told to wind my neck in?
Or is it more a bit of overreaction to me having a bit of a wind up?
I originally got annoyed because his replies to me came off as condescending till he told me English wasn’t his first language, I then apologised to him.
But, I don’t mind apologising again. Zoran, if you’re reading this; I’m sorry. It was a clumsy attempt at a wind up. Sorry mate. Hope there’s no hard feelings.
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Except the reasons Barca had a crap season in 07-08 were not remotely the same as the reasons our season was a let down. They were not crap because they finished third. They finished third because they had become crap.
EDIT: “Crap” being admittedly hyperbolic.
Hardly. If your argument is, as you now seem to have moved to, that in Spain Barca and Real are never far away from being able to challenge no matter how bad they were in any given year then that is one argument. That isn’t what I objected to though. You can look at things in their recent past and pretend that their prospects for getting back to winning ways were fine without significant changes, but that isn’t an accurate recollection of the situation. Pep went in and made significant changes to the approach and personnel, including with respect to core players, and did so in large part because anyone who went in to take over would have had to have done something to turn things around. Therefore to judge the importance of those decisions you have to do so against what any other manager would have done in Pep’s shoes. You can argue against his success that by assuming that what he did was obvious and what anyone would have done, but I don’t think that’s an assumption massively influenced by hindsight bias, assuming that because they worked they were the things anyone in his shoes would have done. And you certainly cannot argue that Pep’s Barca was just a continuation of what was going on before.
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Fuck citeh and the two cunts that support them.
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Fuck. Do you think my dad knows Mrs @Commando?
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I’m reading, but don’t have anything to say/add to what I said in last days/weeks. No need to apologize. When we type behind our screnes and not in person, sometimes it can sound like someone’s talking from a higher position. That certainly wasn’t my intention. We’re just fans here. For my part, we disagreed in the end like adults on the topic and that’s it. On a lot of these questions there is no definite conclusion, disagreeing is the least of problems, I like a good debate. Not the last time we’ll speak about this. Maybe with time some of our opinions change/evolve, at least slightly (or some stay the same). Only natural.
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Well actually the point you make about not far away from challenging in any given year (not my argument by the way) does have a bearing on the argument that Barca were so bad Pep had to come in and rip up the club and start again. (exaggerating)
I’m not saying he didn’t have to make changes and over the years he was there, evolve the team. Every manager has to do some of that.
I’m saying that the team/squad he won the league with wasn’t a lot different to the previous year when they were “crap” as you put it.
So not quite the massive rebuilding job you are making out it is. I’m sure he came in kicked a few butt’s. Was the system so different from the Cruyff style? Not sure I don’t remember it was to be honest.
And last point, I’d expect Klopp, Prime Mourinho, Ancelloti, Conti, Heynicks or any other decent coach to have been able to go in that year to Barca with the team they had and win the title.
To pretend otherwise is elevating Guardiola to levels that are frankly nonsense.
Again, I’ll stress never have I said Pep is not an excellent manager. I said he was in the top 2.
Comes in 2nd for ME precisely because Klopp starts, finishes projects with a lot less resources.
Glad we’re cool. You seem like a thoroughly decent guy, who I’d like to have a beer with while talking footy.
Me on the other hand, well I’m an old fart.
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Young or old, doesn’t matter, we can always have a beer and talk footy. Actually enjoy listening to some stories from the past from people who have seen more than I have.
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Cool. Great chat then.
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Whatever that means.
Love how you quote a part out of context of the whole post.
But yeah I’m cool, great chat.
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The closer it gets the less I care. I’ve had a good season on the betting front, banked over a grand since Christmas, much of it on shithouse bets involving the Reds where I’ve bet on what I didn’t want to happen. If we’d finished outside top 4 I’d have pocketed another grand but I’m made up we got it.
The point is, before the QF’s of the CL I was thinking I’d put everything I’d won on these cunts winning it, to soften the blow so to speak. I remember the devastation I felt when Utd won in Barcelona and Chelsea won in Munich. Now I just can’t be arsed, I’m keeping my money and if they win it I wont give a toss, just like most people wont. It’ll be a nothing achievement by a nothing club. They’ll get no respect from anyone and it will be just another cup they’ve cheated their way to at the expense of honest clubs who keep to the rules (not including Chelsea in that btw).
So fuck 'em.
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God you’re difficult. All this chat commenting on how funny you think you are. Pep’s a great manager. Klopp literally called him the best in the world two weeks ago when they clinched.
I hate the argument that because he has money that makes him less great. There are plenty of managers who’ve failed with money. Loads of managers. The hardest thing to do in sport is to take it from 90% to 100%. Klopp made a living on taking it from 75% to 95% better than anyone else in the world. He’s now actively working on doing the 90-100% with our current group and getting pretty damn good at it. That’s why he extended. There’s no more rebuilding periods greater than one year allowed at this level. And frankly Pep has done a great job of that and I think Klopp has learned a ton and moved us in the right direction.
Make no mistake, this is a two team league as long as the best two managers in the world are here.
And to quote @Scott.Jones fuck citeh and those cunts. Despise them but also game respects
Game.
And cocaine…
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