If he starts the second leg we are we are fucked.
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He couldnât change Phillips, who for? Iâve said heâs what we have weâve practically no alternative.
Trent doesnât âescape my wrathâ he had a shit game. He completely fucks up his header for one of the goals. Heâs not at fault for the other two though thatâs just trying to shift blame of Phillips because⌠I donât know? Its cruel on Phillips or something?
In the two goals I blame Phillips for both are extremely easy goals to stop. He runs in a straight line for the first one thereâs no way he doesnât cut the ball out. Simple, easy defending. Looking for other reasons why that goal happens is bullshit. He knows the winger had run off the RB onto him, the RCB and its an easy situation to deal with. We donât man Mark we space Mark. Trents job evolves to protect against their LB/mids moving out to our wide right/their left. Kabak is doing the duel job of protecting against Benzema getting involved and being aware of Asensio doing on our left what Vinicius does on our right. None of them can be expected to know Phillips would make a hash over such a simple defensive header and need to be aware of second phase danger. Phillips does what heâs supposed to and nods the ball clear then if Kabak has come storming in to help Nat then Benzema and/or Asensio are potentially free to sweep up the loose ball and Kabak is at fault. Trent abandons his area to help Phillips and thatâs where the ball ends up and yet again Trent is at fault if any of their players are now there to take advantage.
The second goal is even worse. The ball comes in to a player right in front of Nat and a second later is in the back of the net. But Nat is looking straight at that player arriving, he knows where the ball is and that this guy has already scored. He doesnât attempt to cut the ball out, two steps forward and it never gets to Vinicius. Or hit the deck to fully block the shot. All he does is stand in Alissons way, itâd almost be better if he wasnât there at all and it had practically been a penalty with a moving ball Vinicius one on one with Alisson.
Sorry but on either of those goals players would have had to abandon the roles they needed to be fulfilling to help Nat do something he shouldnât have needed help with, they probably wouldnât have been able to help with and we could have ended up punished by our players then, pointlessly, being out of position for any follow up play.
Iâm sorry that is ludicrous. Iâd bet that Klopp is aware of that area, had a plan in place before hand and it wasnât executed. Apparently thatâs Phillips fault by your reckoning.
Every team has a weak link and every manager tries to protect that area one way or another. Opposition managers will target that area. Hell, Zidane even said that they would target that area before the game.
But itâs Phillips fault that he wasnât given the protection needed.
Look we all know he is the weak link but instead of blaming him, look wider understand what is happening on a wider scale on the game as a whole and why we allowed that area, that we know is problematic to become a problem. It should have been protected, it wasnât and I look at the team as a whole for that failure.
You play to your strengths and you protect your weaknesses but we did neither. Thatâs not Phillips fault.
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It remains quite simpleâŚ
Nat tries his best but we have to adopt our mentalityâŚ
We need to score more than the oppositionâŚ
We are not even creating the chances to do that.!!
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Sure, but apparently thatâs all Phillips fault. It isnât, exactly in the same way Keitaâs abysmal showing last night isnât Phillips fault or it isnât Keitaâs fault that everyone else was crap as well.
The argument is that Phillips was directly at fault for the goals. I dont agree with that. I believe there were errors before Phillips was even involved in that phase of play. Heâs not squeaky clean but I dont for one minute put all the blame on him either.
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Ok I get it you donât like Phillips but this is going too far.he certainly didnât end up on the floor very often!
Yes he bbooms his headers, and that is the joke of the moment on social media, however he does not lunge, he isnât Lovren, ok he lacks agility and comes across as very clumsy gets caught on the turn but thatâs very different from what your descibing.
Who would you prefer partnering Kabak (who made a few mistakes himself but his greater technique really showed)?
I wouldnât be against Williams at least he would learn something being out there. Even soo I just donât see the point of knocking a player lower than he is just for the sake of it when he is just a last resort.
If you say so.
Thatâs an easy stance but how much protection is enough protection? If we still concede have we still not protected enough? Is that the rule? We could have Gomez at RCB, Trent at RWB, Fabinho and Henderson as a double DM and VvD at LCB. But Phillips, if heâs on the pitch, will still be expected to do simple one to one basic defending at times. If he fucks that up would he still have not had enough protection? Heâs not good enough for this level but we are stuck and having to use him. But trying to blame those around him for his fuck ups isnât going to protect him, help the situation or cover him. Itâs just going to cause more debate about how he isnât good enough. Instead of us all accepting that. Saying "oh wellâ when his limitations cost us and moving on.
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Ok if your going to be like that.
What is your real problem with Phillips?
Who should we be playing there?
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We got Fabinho who could partner Kabak but that upset some who think he should not be played there. Personally I would play him there, close the back door and work from there. Madrid will score more than one at Anfield with Nat there.
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That was always Klopps plan having Fabinho as 4th choice CB. Thiago then moves to 6 with Gini and Jones in midfiekd? ((or Milner to have a captain).
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Thats what I think we will see next week to be honest.
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It was interesting that Kabak was the Centre Back to get pulled, which, together with the sight of Rhys Williams going through an intensive warm up at half time on Saturday, and Kabak also being subbed in that match, to me suggests that the lad is carrying something and being managed through games.
I donât think Klopp can sub/drop Phillips right now even if he wants to.
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Yeah I agree with that. A lot is made of how bad our lads were (in part true), but Madrid were outstanding to be fair with them. Our players simply couldnât compete with them during the first half. The second half was a little bit better, but overall, we were under the cosh also because Madrid were outstanding on the night.
I think that our only hope is that Real havenât always been consistent in their form this season. They might be out of form when they come to Anfield, maybe thinking that it is already in the bag for them. Our lads might have learnt something from what they did wrongly in Madrid, and perform at their best again, maybe score an early goal after some genuine intensity at the start. Then, who knows⌠but the chances of this happening are unfortunately remote. This Madrid team is so experienced, so cold-nosed⌠theyâll again exploit any frailties weâll inevitably show.
As for the Phillips bashing going on here by some: ridiculous. If you want to bash him, then youâll have to bash Kabak too. They play as a pair, and perform well or badly as a pair. Phillips has his limitations (lack of pace first and foremost), but having to compete against such a good team with a young unexperienced center-back pair was always going to be hard for us, whatever their potential is.
The learning curve these two lads are undergoing right now is monumental, and theyâve done well considering the circumstances. Itâs not out of the question that theyâll raise their game after that lesson handed out by Madrid. Hopefully that will apply for all our players, fingers crossed.
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yes but youâre refusing to adapt. And that means refusing to adapt in the quarter finals of the CL.
We adapt (or try to) for every game, in order to counter the oppositions strengths or expose their weaknesses. Odd that Real did the same to us. 
Iâm comfortable in saying that the fairy tale has reached its limit but at the same time throwing all the blame his way for the utter shit show that occurred the other night is just not fair and its not even correct either.
Most goals from open play tend to be conceded from a number of small errors compounding with each other, especially at this level where the margins are so tight. Klopps words not mine. I agree with them.
So again, I urge you to look back at the goals and basically understand all the small errors in the lead up to each. Maybe then you might understand that while Phillips has his limits the utterly garbage performance from pretty much everyone else is equally, if not more to blame for the result.
Maybe, just maybe the reason that Klopp pulled Keita was because he was the one that was supposed to help protect that channel.
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Thinking the same I think.
I wonder if itâs to avoid cramp, which suggests a muscular problem meybe. Heâs being pulled late in games
Nobody is blaming Phillips for everything, this over the top defence isnât helping. Nobody is saying that we played well but Phillips let us down.
Everyone knows Phillips is doing everything he can and heâs in an impossible situation he shouldnât be in.
And that we are in an impossible situation having to rely on him with almost no alternative (certainly not one thatâs significantly better) that we and he shouldnât be in.
We played a crap game. We could have got something out of it but didnât. We were up against one of the best sides in the world.
All that said, failure to acknowledge that two of their goals came from Phillips not doing simple things right is causing a debate that seems like people are slating Phillips. Iâm not sure anybody wants to do that. But Phillips does two simple, easy, bits of defending right on those two chances and they arenât even chances let alone shots or goals. One wasnât even particularly dangerous situation till Phillips made it dangerous by not dealing with it.
All this trying to find other points of blame to deny the simple truth is what is the issue.
All that needed to be said was âPhillips should have done better but he did his best and he shouldnât even be in this situationâ and itâd be over.
Instead itâs turned into a big debate with more and more negative things being said about Phillips. VvD, Gomez, Matip, Kabak on that side (who effectively pocketed the much more dangerous Benzema) or Fabinho, let alone any CBs we can buy in the market and those two goals donât happen that way.
We may still play rubbish, they may still find other ways to score just as many goals. Or we might have got an undeserved point, weâve done it before and weâll do it again. Nobody can know about any of that.
But those two goals are because one concerning and one dangerous passages of play happened against one of the best teams in the world and the CB who should have been able to deal with both wasnât able to due to his limitations.
Expecting our team to play well enough that a team like Real Madrid donât end up in situations like that or better to stop one of our defenders needing to defend is unrealistic. Even if weâd played brilliantly that night and been great a team as good as them still would have ended up with chances Phillips would have needed to defend against, possibly even the exact same ones.
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Looks to me as if you did
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Looks like I did what? Where have I denied we played bad? Or blamed Phillips for everything? All Iâve ever tried to do is acknowledge Real exposed and targeted Phillips and he should have been able to stop them scoring those two goals. He didnât do well enough. Itâs why he shouldnât be at this level. But people keep trying to argue its not his fault x should be doing this y should be doing that. Real are always going to get chances no matter how well everyone else did. Eventually Phillips is going to have to defend against Real Madrid over two legs even if the rest of our side puts in faultless displays. Itâs unrealistic to demand our side play well enough against an opponent like that so Phillips doesnât end up in situations like that. He should have done better but couldnât and we shouldnât be using him. I think the hype train is cruel in this way as heâs now become too built up peopleâs hopes and expectations have been set and now people feel the need to defend him and look for blame elsewhere. First goal he runs in a straight line and heâs got a simple header to put the ball to Alisson or Kabak to clear. The other one he sees the player arriving central, he knows thatâs the pass, he either gets on his toes and strides forward two paces cutting the ball out and clearing it or hits the deck to block the shot. That chance may still be a talking point but he does the right thing and first goal isnât even a chance.
ok. You continually focus on one aspect rather than the wider picture. Here is clear evidence.
You say that he should have been able to cut out those goals. Iâm saying the situation that lead to him being exposed like that is the issue. Which is worse?
- Blaming a weaker player because he simply wasnât good enough - your stance
- Acknowledging the weaknesses in your side and allowing the opposition to have a free run at them.
I know my choice.
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