Fuckwittery… I like that too.
Bit of tomfoolery here and there.
The good old days, eh? Probably depends on perspective. Wasn’t always fun for e.g. women or homosexuals I’ve heard.
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Add up church attendance in the UK. Include mosques, synagogues, the lot.
Does that cover 5% of the population? I’m sure stats could be found, but I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t in that sort of range.
So, approx 5% of the population are engaged with their faith, in a community of fellow believers. (Let’s even double it to 10% though that seems way too high to me).
So, 90%+ of the population have no faith community or religious engagement via the church, mosque, synagogue…
So why are things such a mess if having no religion is the enlightened path?
I think people have also been saying that for generations. When wasn’t the world falling apart? Someone has always been fighting each other, someone has always been poor, someone has always been in abject misery. Normally because of some theological or idealogical difference. It’s a bit disingenuous to state categorically that things are worse now because of falling church numbers. I’d go further and say I am glad I live now. If I’d been an adult in deeply Calvinist and religious Apartheid South Africa not all that long ago I’d be abhorred, my family living under scrutiny, have very little means to live the life I have led or perhaps exiled or perhaps imprisoned or dead. No offense but it’s typically a white, Western view to assume that the good old days were better.
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Because too many people vote for the Tories. Nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with the class system and the manipulation of the poorly educated.
BTW @RedOverTheWater you don’t live in the UK, do you? I could be wrong there, but I don’t think that you do. So, speaking as someone who also does not live in the UK, what is this “state” that the UK is in? Is it so terrible?
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They always have been, you have no arguement!
I will highlight this by saying berhaps the state is due to the lower number of declared ‘religious’ persons has just caused them to become even more bigotted and objectional.
On the other hand we can look at other trends, take for example this ‘new’ libertarianism,which appears to have some dubious religious background, which is becoming a poison to decent life.
To be honest these righteous positions are really stupid. Only respect can get us over that however culture (which includes religion but goes deeper) is the blocking point.
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Surely that premise is erroneous as going to church isn’t a prerequiste to being religious, feeling one is a christian or whatever or change cultural bias. Doesn’t it just indicate that the church is seen as not representing that religion anymore?
I don’t assume the good old days were better, and I too and glad I’m alive today.
My question is, since we are leaving religion behind, and the vast majority have no religion, why do we see so much crime and other societal ills?
I’m English. Age 50. Born in England, educated there, lived and worked there, moved overseas at age 38.
We are still the same bunch of people. However many things that were kept silent before and weren’t even crimes in the past are now. As we know many churches have covered up stuff that is atrocious though before where accepted as ‘normal’, like beating kids, sexually abusing kids …
Do you have church attendance stats for the UK? My estimate is 5%. (All faiths).
That’s the only stat I gave, albeit anecdotal.
Edit: just looked it up, my guess was pretty accurate.
I don’t think the claim is that once religion is out of the picture, all humans immediately become wonderful beings and everyone lives in perfect harmony ever after. At least certainly not from me. We’re a bit shit, always have been. We’ll always find ways to fuck (each other) up.
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Now this I find closer to the truth, thank you sir!
Are they in a state?
Sure there is petty crime and individual cases of people doing shit things.
But when did we last have a genocide in the UK? And what the religiosity of the country then?
We are seeing the benefits of leaving religion behind. On the other hand try being gay or black in one of the more religious parts of the world.
Edit: actually being black isn’t correct - was thinking of America. Would be better to say ‘being the wrong colour’. The gays pretty much get it everywhere though 
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I’ve contributed enough for the time being, so I will have a break from this for now.
My main objection is the false construct that is being built. On the one hand we appear to have no problem in apportioning blame for prejudice, crime and atrocity to the religious segment. It fits the narrative of them being slightly less advanced, progressive, enlightened, and so on.
On the other hand, when confronted with the fact that the overwhelming majority of the population of, say, the UK, is irreligious, all we appear to be able to concede, by way of societal ills, is some fuckwittery, plus petty crime and individual cases of people doing shit things?
One hand is massively overplayed, the other massively underplayed, and as such it is confirmation bias in the extreme. To my mind it just feels like regurgitated Christopher Hitchens, or Richard Dawkins, sneering and ungracious tits both, in my view, the former obviously dead now.
The religious people I know are generous with their time, talents and treasure, impacting numerous communities and doing lots of good, here and now. I have friends who are doing great things for underprivileged kids in Indianapolis in the areas of homelessness, hunger, and helping kids to graduate from high school, which improves numerous potential outcomes for their lives.
I’ve been part of a group raising and giving money to fund deep bore wells in Africa (approx. $25k digs one well, and this produces enough clean water to sustain a community of about 300 people, massively boosting infant and child mortality rates, and taking away several common diseases to improve quality of life and life expectancy).
I could go on with many more examples I know from first hand knowledge, but suffice to say I’ve never seen a more engaged and generous bunch, and I know lots of people, religious and otherwise, all over the world.
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At least they have the balls to actually profess what their book tells them to. That’s why I almost have time for them. Hideous people but at least they’re honest to all the evils of their scriptures.
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Enlightened? If you could provide the slightest proof of the existence of a god-like celestial being (you’d get a Noble Prize) as opposed to the utter absence of the same then you can claim to be enlightened. As the word specifically means having a well informed outlook, do please share this information that we (who are seemingly ignored by god) are prevented from accessing.
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The Highland Clearances?
although it wasnt all down to religion.
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J.C.L Gibson wrote from a Christian viewpoint,
an Iman or a Rabbi might have a different view,
as i said, its all open to interpretation
Which is one if the reasons that I don’t believe any of it. If god created us then surely he could write a book that we understood perfectly with no room for interpretation.