Is that question aimed at me? 
No, generally. But thanks for the correction, I just took a god Iād heard of without knowledge of what they actually did.
You in the general sense, hang onā¦
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Just waking up from a nap -
Did someone mention Scientology?
Thatās not a scam. A scam has to be believable.
A lot of people are going to be in for a massive surprise when the Goaāuld finally return
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I come from a long line of atheists, it all seemed to have stemmed from my great great grandfather who was an anglican minister. Since then that side of my familly has been atheist. However all branches of my familly have been agnostic, non praticant ect for at least 3 generations. Despite that my mum went to a Catholic boarding school, which is really strange. Culturally though Iād say I am anglican thereās just some aspects and bias you just donāt seem to shake off unless your really concious of it.
The point is I donāt feel any conflict with religion, there are benefits thatās for sure, of being in a close nit religious community. I just canāt bring myself to believe that sort of stuff.
I donāt feel any need to persaud people that I am right and take an instant dislike to people who try ramming religion down my throat. Jesus this, mohammed that blah, blah ā¦ go away!
What I get from this thread is that many are angry about something and some have real big cultural hang ups over good and bad due to their religious beliefs.
I loved dabbling into āpaganā gods, Pan, Thor, Odin but never took it seriously just really good fiction at times. The trouble with Christianity for me was RE and the really crap stories, josephs technicolored dream coat, good samaritans it was so perverse imo.
I can not really say much more apart from Buddism interests me I just can not get into religion. What I would say though is I respect the devotion I felt in people Iāve talked to who have respected me. who am I to say they are wrong as long as they respect me and I respect them?
Of course the big problem with most religious writings is they discourage respect for those who believe differntly, that is the core of many problems and means you can not discuss things with many āreligiousā people.
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In a perverse way, there is more chance of that happening than an actual god turning up - and that is from an atheist that believes that aliens likely exist but that we will unlikely ever cross paths with themā¦ different conversation?
I think we already have, but they refuse to acknowledge our existence due to how stupid we are as a species.
Wow. (In response to saying Jesus not a real historic person).
How do you account for the birth of the church?
Itās impact in the Roman Empire?
And subsequently down the centuries?
Why did Emperor Constantine and other leaders become Christians?
What about thousands of documents chronicling what he did?
Numerous historic references to him in early centuries?
Many hundreds/thousands of martyrs?
Missionary endeavor, in his name, throughout the world from the earliest times and on?
You seriously think all of that, and much much more besides, happened on the basis of a figment of imagination? Or how do you account for it?
Itās not credible, at all, to say he didnāt exist.
My viewpoint is that I canāt keep saying the same thing for you to willfully ignore!
I am saying the irreligious/secular/atheist have also committed wrongdoing, either on a smaller scale, or on an industrial scale, but you seem unable to accept it?
There is no evidence for Jesus outside the bible.
Nothing you have written is evidence that there was a messianic figure knocking about 0AD Judea doing miracles.
What I donāt accept is that the regimes you have mentioned are āirreligiousā. They arenāt. Iāve already explained why. If you want to have a conversation about this, please address my argument rather than just repeating the same thing again.
Thatās the crux of it. We have pretty accurate written histories going back thousands of years before but nothing else except their own say so gives any indication as to the existence of Jesus. In a deeply religious and superstitious world at that time, the message is a very seductive one; you can have a personal relationship with God and he would forgive you all your sins at the very last moment if need be despite a lifetime of wrong doing.
Itās possible to replace religion with another nonsense set of ideas, see some of the anti-vaxxer nutcases as a current example, itās basically a cult for some people. Thatās not really a strong argument FOR religion though.
There is evidence of Jesus outside the bible.
Not very much. But then there wouldnāt be for most people of that time.
I donāt think there is. Thatās the problem. This charismatic preacher who performed miracles, raised people from the dead, cured diseases, and developed a sizeable following to the point that the Romans put him to death, barely warrants a mention in contemporaneous texts.
Christians like to cite Josephus, but most serious historians consider that a fake.
Thank you for acknowledging Stalinās atheism.
I missed your viewpoint on the officially atheist Chinese government systematically destroying the religious Uighur people? I continue to labor on this point in order to say that all people, whether religious or irreligious, have it in them to commit wrongdoing, both on a minor scale with minor consequences, and also an industrial scale, with major consequences.
Next: the notion that every advance has been due to secular progress?
Sorry, no way can I go along with that. It is massively unfair and biased.
To cite just one example of a contribution from the religious segment, and because I saw discussion of the Big Bang, earlier in the thread I mentioned Lemaitre, a Catholic Priest, and physicist, who came up with the Big Bang theory (Hubble built on his work two years later). If the Big Bang theory helps you to understand our universe, you can thank Father Lemaitre!
Next: Reducing crime?
Yes, inequality is a huge factor. Education, and access to opportunities are too. Numerous factors actually, but these are two of the biggest. How to tackle it? Obviously a huge task. The role of government is crucial. But thereās a role to play beyond that, as we all know.
So does the religious segment just assume everyone is a sinner, and they need to pray to Jesus to help us? And thatās it? It is is a gross misrepresentation, if that is allowed to stand unchallenged.
I have made the point numerous times that I have never seen a more generous and engaged bunch than the Jesus followers I know, who give of their time, talents and money to help lift the parts of the world they touch. This has been dismissed as confirmation bias, which is offensive to me, as it happens.
On a personal note, for many years I have given a decent percentage of my income to charities, and usually lifting people and communities out of poverty is the main determining factor for where I might choose to give. A quid in the bucket outside Sainsburyās? No, Iām talking about intentional, planned giving, thousands a year. Iām not rich, and when my family gives, of course it affects the bottom line. So we live more modestly than we might, but I wouldnāt change it for anything. What am I supposed to do? Drive a Mercedes? Or drive a Honda and do something useful? And so on.
So, rather than just encouraging people to pray to Jesus, I actually work hard to try to address inequality, poverty, and other systemic issues, in the part of the world where I am. Along the way I started to get more involved with my time, and have served on various non profit boards and organized resources, labor, people, donation drives, etc. to help various situations.
My wife gave up her career a while ago to mostly focus on the needs our kids have (nearly lost daughter as a youngster, but she is still with us and doing great now). She gives her time to a local non profit, helping young women who would otherwise be homeless, and she helps them with counseling skills, life skills, helping them to finish high school, tutoring, arranging tutors, fundraising, helping with interview skills, transport needs and all the way up to finding and keeping a job to help break the cycle of poverty. Tons of at risk kids have had their lives changed.
Going overseas, the lack of clean drinking water is the biggest thing we can do to save lives and address preventable disease that add to infant and young child mortality rates. I gave the numbers on the cost for a deep bore well, and how many people it sustains, earlier. Last year me and some others funded two of them in communities in Uganda, while also contributing to micro finance schemes to help communities be more self sustaining.
I donāt want a medal, and itās not supposed to impress you. Iām just offering it up in response to the sort of viewpoint that says religious folks sit around, calling on people to pray to Jesus to help them, while not really doing much on the ground to help lift the people in our world.
I repeat, Iāve never seen a more engaged and generous bunch.
I honestly think some people have a caricature in their minds, and they donāt really know a credible Christian, so instead, they whack the church and assume the Christians are bastards.
As for my religion, I donāt actually like the word, as it conjures up all sorts, such as the examples you mentioned - the wealth of the Catholic Church and the indulgences sold in the Middle Ages. I just want to wholeheartedly agree with you on that. It is dead wrong.
It doesnāt look like following Jesus, at all. I have shared numerous times that I try to follow Jesus. I am concerned about some of the trappings of religion when it organizes and moves away from the core tenets of what it should be.
But as a Jesus follower my life is better. Iāve known many years without doing that, and many years with. For me, it is night and day.
I could argue that you could ( and people do ) all those things outside any religion. I could also ask if youād stop doing those things if Jesus were proven to not exist.
Weāre back to Penn, I have killed and raped all the people I want to.
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Nah, pretty sure most everyone here has met a nice Christian, whoās trying to do good things in the world. Iāve met some terribly nice Muslims as well, really positively involved in charity and the community.
Doesnāt change my overall view on religion though personally.
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