Russian War Crimes (Part 1)

I’m not in France but I love Yquem and Romanee-Conti so I’m happy to speak on their behalf:

Oui. I think Macron is just trying to look relevant and statesman like, although it’s probable that trying to communicate with Putin is primarily to establish his state of mind vis a vis escalation (and therefore a worthy exercise).

EDIT: I can’t spell it but I can drink it! :wink:

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Truss’ comments today were quite interesting. Seems that a deal to split the country is in play and being (likely) broadly backed. Unless of course Macron is completely out of the loop and/or Truss has the actual back door to Putin…?.

p.s. I think everyone across a body or water should be distrusted - unless of course it’s a special somebody…

As ive mentioned before with examples , despite being " non aligned " , India has always had historically closer ties to soviet union and now Russia than USA.

India has increased cooperation with the US (QUAD being one major thing but the shithousery that successive US presidents have done w.r.t India remains a huge part on why US and NATO arent really held in a better positive light. This goes on from Nixon/Kissinger era onwards.

When you look at the champion of democracy undermining or trying to undermine the worlds largest democracy by supporting and helping to build a terrorist infrastructure in Pak… How is it surprising ?

Macron was pandering to Putin to try and prevent a war. Whatever ‘warmth’ might have existed between the two men was instantly extinguished once the Russians invaded. Macron let it be known that he was furious with Putin’s deception , although I’d argue that he was more than a little naive in the first place to engage in what always appeared to be no more than a masquerade.

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So what do you make of the dialogue between the two since?

I think the answer to your query is right there - somewhere between those two quotes.

However, there feels like there is an implication in the first quote that links it to “love” rather than the individual words you have used. It is definitely not love, as most in the UK would still fail the Tebbit test, but rather business pragmatism - for both parties I might add. Almost all of the UK Indians (I know) don’t care for politics, politicians or world view. It is all about head down, get on with work and family and social husbanding. Most vote Conservative and do so not because the Conservative world view resonates but rather do so due to the lure of paying less tax. Indians in the UK, and in India, are if nothing else pragmatic, hard working and ingrained into tight family/social cliques.

The Indians in India have no vested interest in the world or the world view of Europe or the Middle East or anywhere else - much like here. Much like Hobbits, the outside world is far away and for others to figure out. The colonial past is just that, the past. I think the colonial past is over blown in terms of the importance it is given by the West. Before the British there were the Moguls, before that there were Turks, Alexander before them and the Aryans before even him.

p.s.
Fun fact, India was the only country to have an army on both sides in WWII!

p.p.s
Strangely, there’s something in this old Bollywood song that seems to fit the Indian (possibly mainly Indian Hindu) mentality perfectly…
|Mera joota hai japani| My shoes are Japanese|
|Yeh patloon englistani| These pants are British|
|Sar pe laal topi rusi| I have a red Russian hat on my head|
|Phir bhi dil hai hindustani| But still my heart is Indian|

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Well Macron certainly seems to have long since abandoned any attempts at soothing his (Putin’s) ego. Apparently he told him he was being paranoid and that he was lying to himself as well as the Russian people. I’m not sure what the desired effect of those words were but they certainly point to exasperation on Macron’s behalf. As with all the other leaders who allowed themselves to be hoodwinked during the ‘phony war’ , I think it’s going to be a very long time before anyone takes Putin at his word again.

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No!
Such a suggestion indicates a complete disconnection with France, French diplomacy and French culture.
The French never stop talking and never stop others from talking, the problems occur when it comes to listening.
It’s not what you say, or for that matter what you listen to or even hear, it’s what you do that counts!

Better Macron than Johnson or Biden that’s for sure.

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Absolute bollocks! :kissing_heart:

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Quite a lot about this I would disagree. South Asia still bears the marks of the british rule (or misrule). The ease of which Britain haphazardly decided to get out of the subcontinent and the actual partition process.

The Brits plundered India (let’s be honest about that). It’s not like the Indians are looking for an apology. You are looking at the systematic looting of the Indian provinces by the brits to fuel their wars. You are looking at someone like Churchill not allowing essential food materials to reach Bengal during the famines because he felt that Indian lives were worthless. You are talking about reducing a region which provided 20% of the world’s economy in manufactured goods before the british rule to essentially be something which is a supplier of raw material. While Indians would rather look forward , It’s not true that people have forgotten what Colonialism was like

Indian (and other asian countries) raw material fueled British Industrialization to make products that were essentially sold back to India at exhorbitant prices.

Don’t equate the Moghuls and the other rulers and what they’ve done (the wealth wasn’t taken away from India unless you are talking about Mahmud of Ghazni etc invading the western parts of India and probably Delhi , Alexander never made it beyond modern day Punjab so his invasion basically never happened , The Aryan invasion doesn’t even come into the picture… It was more of migration) when compared to what the British Colonialism has done to India. I still say the brit colonialism wasn’t as bad as what Leopold did with Congo for instance , but still.

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I don’t have too many relatives of mine who are UK citizens so I can’t speak for them. But I’ve got extended family members who are now US citizens. Most South Indians atleast would vote for democrats in the US. As in, They don’t mind paying the extra taxes but healthcare etc etc is important to them. This changes obviously when you look at North Indians who I assume are more conservative in their outlook and tend to vote republican. India’s a pretty vast country and I don’t think there can be a blanket rule that can be applied to them. And like i said, Most South Indians don’t really prefer UK as their preference, They’d rather go to US and Canada for settling.

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Macron is mostly thinking about looking like a statesman, due to the reelection coming very soon.

Mindbogglingly, he even tried to copy the Zelensky look during a photo ops.

I have French nationality, though don’t really follow closely politics in France or live there anymore.

Name me one French President who didn’t. That’s all part of the look, have you never seen the photo shoots at one of those francophone gatherings?
The point is they have all had their say and the doors are never closed. Diplomacy continues.

Who does?

At least show some understanding and don’t blindly follow the anglosaxon line. France is different particularly it’s diplomacy and that diversity doesn’t upset me. In fact i think it’s healthy even if it isn’t effective.

I see the UK are looking for ways to throw the towel in already. :grinning:

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Is there such a thing as a gentle rule - even over ones own country in most cases?

Speaking of North Indians, my relatives all vote Democrat in the US and those in the UK, all vote Conservative… weird…

Conservativeness in the UK is different from Conservativeness in the US i guess. I’m not very sure about UK politics but I’m pretty sure that both conservatives and liberals in UK actually support accessible healthcare unlike US.

Anyway, We’re diverging from this topic. Can have a discussion on this in another thread perhaps.

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awkward pulp fiction GIF

I’d love to know what the reaction is like back in the US to Biden’s gaffes over the last week or so.

I count at least four

  1. Calling Putin a war criminal
  2. Calling him a butcher
  3. Telling US troops based in Eastern Europe that they’ll see how brave the Ukrainian soldiers are “when they get there”, and
  4. Calling for regime change in Russia.

There may well be others!

Sheesh.

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