No comment from either of you. No highlighting of what I am so unable to understand regarding the political context. I get it. Okay. Expected much better of you. Very disappointed. Good night.
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Itās probably a little late. Take it easy bud, weāre all on the same side here and this topic can be more than a little heart wrenching at times.
Peace.
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With Livvy you just seemed a bit over sensitive to her pointing out the context. I personally didnāt feel she defended what Scholtz said. That it was posted on their Nato twitter account was really poor judgement. That he said that to some peace loving christians ok but donāt tell everyone.
The point is you seem to miss the provocative dividing clan behaviour which is more than creeping in now. This wonāt help Ukraine. That France and Germany get criticised is fine. It surprised me you missed my point earlier.
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Itās not you, itās the material you post. This isnāt personal.
We are commenting on the material (mainly twitter) and itās content not on what you think or say. In a good number of tweets there is pointed separist views that need context or ignoring. They are politically persausive and not in the least constructive.
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Regardless of my personal opinion, you simply underestimate the fact that there are very, very many here who support this reluctance delivery of weapons etc., or who are already following a more or less common course within the government. Criticism from outside simply bounces off how it looks. But Scholz also has to speak to these antiwar people here in Germany. ThatĀ“s what i tried to explain, nothing else.
So thereās absolutely no point in getting worked up about it all the time. I know that news keeps leaking out that there is no open communication at all about what is actually being delivered and what not, there is an agreement here, as in France, that many things are just not announced. Criticism is justified imo, but it is what it is. At some point you just have to accept that. On the other hand, there is obviously an agenda that keeps pouncing on such statements and taking them completely out of context.
ItĀ“s too late for me now, sorry. I really donāt want to argue.
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Isnāt this what Macron was alluding to at the beginning of āthe warā when he went on about ādefensiveā weapons?
He also warned, in particular Spain, about publically stating what they were sending to Ukraine. Notable that after that many EU members refrained from publically announcing their armament intentions.
Even so France has evidently sent offensive weapons now so what he was actually alluding to seems very vague.
As stated the 'NATO agreement seems to be an informal one and surely events have past the point of such informalities to be considered.
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Itās a precarious position because both NATO and the EU are not directly involved in this conflict. From what I have seen both France and Germany have been acting in line with NATO and that is essentially driven by Biden.
Many commentators seem to be demanding that NATO becomes militarily involved. If they did, without article 5 being invoked, that could rapidly decend into World, or at least intercontinental, war. I think the policy at the moment is to prevent conflict spreading which would explain many of the actions of Scholz, Biden and so on (for example Scholzās statements of support for Africa, Biden for Taiwan etc).
To prevent that conflict spreading Ukraine needs support in a number of areas: militarily, financially and humanitarian. The problem with military support is that there is a grey line between support and active involvement. Supplying certain arms and training has to be done on the quiet. As it stands, no one knows exactly what is going on but some countries, Poland and Germany in particular, are really not in a position to advertise what they are actually doing. Remember that when someone is promising XYZ weapons, these do not arrive, ready to use, in the back of a UPS truck.
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Well said. With the way the conflict has developed its easier to see a way where Russia gets little gain at enormous cost rather than NATO risk an escalation. Ukraine has done a marvelous job of defending their land while severely degrading Russian equipment and men. Itās obviously taken an enormous toll on them as well but with continuing arms and Intel support an endgame where they can pull of some sort of win or at least credible stalemate that keeps the conflict localised is still very much a viable option.
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This is the Scholz speech the tweet referred to.
I just wanted to clarify what it was all about.
Edit
Today Macron and Scholz had another long phone call with Putin. It was about a way to end the grain blockade, ceasefire, serious negotiations, etc.
France and Germanyās leaders urged Putin to agree to a ceasefire in a Saturday phone call
From CNNās Stephanie Halasz
The leaders of Germany and France held a phone call with Vladimir Putin on Saturday, in which they pressed the Russian President to agree to an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine and withdraw Russiaās troops from the country, German officials said.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and French President Emmanuel Macron spoke with Putin for 80 minutes āon their initiative,ā according to the German governmentās press office.
āThe German chancellor and the French president urged an immediate ceasefire and a withdrawal of Russian troops. They called on the Russian president to engage in serious direct negotiations with the Ukrainian president and to find a diplomatic solution to the conflict,ā the German government news release said.
A statement from the French Presidential office, the Elysee Palace, said: āAny solution to the war must be negotiated between Moscow and Kyiv.ā
In the call, Macron and Scholz also called for the release of about 2,500 Azovstal defenders who have been taken as prisoners of war by Russian forces, the French readout said, in a reference to Ukrainian forces who were captured after defending the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol for weeks.
In addition, the two leaders urged Putin to lift the blockade of Odesa to allow the export of Ukrainian grain through the Black Sea in order to avoid a world food crisis, according to the statement.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1530552179404197889
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1530552185104306178
another attempt to blackmail to get the sanctions liftet.
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Iām pretty sure Iāve voiced my emabarassment and frustration at the current course of the chancellor quite a lot of times. Again, Iāve had it with Scholz. Again,embarassing,frustrating and Iāll add to that on the wrong side of history imo. I also think his hesitant and meandering isnāt helping at all but rather it amplifies the sentiments of a population that has an already inbuilt skepticism of all things military. Heās creating even more doubts with that at a time where strong leadership would be crucial.
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So Russia gets to annex the Donbas , have the sanctions lifted and then wait a couple of years (or less) before they launch another invasion ?
Thereās no way Kiev could or should ever agree to that.
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If I understand it correctly, it would be that they have to withdraw to pre-war lines?
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Harpoon anti-ship missiles received from Denmark.
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This is gonna sound bad but if Ukraine wants this to end, they have to go find a Russian city somewhere and bomb the hell out of them, make the people suffer to put pressure on those around Putin to pull him down. I donāt like this at all but how on earth will this war stop? Russia military is not great but will be enough to keep Ukrainians from having a peaceful night of sleep for years.
I donāt think Ukraine will contemplate even entering Russia until Russia declares it a war. If they āset footā in Russia Russia will claim they started the war as it was just a special operation.
I came to this when they didnāt continue their push north of Kharkiv, which strategically seemed the thing to do rather crossing the river (although crossingthe river gave the oppotunity to block supply routes from Bolgorod it was/is very dangerous and vunerable to counter attacks, getting a foothold there is very difficult (this push seems to have gotten bogged down and is using troops who could be mounting a threat to Russia itself or dfending the east). Personally I see this as Ukraines 1st major mistake though I would expect mistakes to be made, itās not easy to always react effectively, war is more difficult than a football match.
I think the way out is that the threats to Poland be used to cause a mistake by Russia and Belarusse. Keep immense pressure on the Poland Belarusse border to try and force a reaction there that would pull NATO into the conflict. The USA has already sent loads of additional troops there and other NATO nations should do the same along with Poland creating problems on the border, blocking all trade lots of surveilance ops along the border etc. If Belarusse can be ātrickedā into pulling the trigger NATO can go in to defend Poland and take the threat of an invasion from Belarusse away. Leaving Ukraine with greater freedom to deal with the eastern front.
In fact it wouold surprise me if USA hadnāt already thought of this though would expect a lot of resistance from European nations.