Buying a centre back at least gives us a chance to get Fab and Henderson back in midfield. Not doing so means Fab is a centre back for the season and when Matip is injured it now looks like it might be Henderson.
Selling Matip and buying two centre backs is what needs to happen over the next 2/3 windows but it seemed unrealistic to suggest it for this one.
I would be interested to see more specific data regarding the changes to our defensive line so many people have been taking about. During which phase of play? I recall Hendo on the ball during our possession phase inside United’s half. We won an offside trap at one point all but right on top of the halfway line.
It’s documented that we pushed even higher last season in part because of the VAR system for offside reducing the risks. But we scored goals, plenty of them, for multiple seasons before introducing that specific tactic. I think we risk a bit of navel-gazing in our analysis when we imply that we have to keep replicating a specific formula with such narrowly defined parameters in order to be successful. You don’t throw out your principles and fundamentals, but I think it’s an oversimplification to point to our CB crisis as the root of all ills. We kept a clean sheet and defended well against United (and recently). I thought Thiago and Shaqiri were particularly influential, so I don’t see that the midfield was screaming out for Hendo and Fabinho. I’m more inclined to point to a lack of effective movement and patterns of play against deep opponents.
Get Jota back fit, so we can have some rotation in the front 3 without a drop off in quality.
Thiago getting a good run of games in, and time to mesh with our front 3.
Drop Firmino, and use Shaq, AOC, Curtis and Minamino more.
Try shifting to a 4231 with Thiago and Hendo/Gini as the double pivot, which allows for either of Mo or Mane to play up top, and allows for more of #3 to happen.
The problem is that we are showing no variation in attack. We are crossing too much or trying to cut in too much from the flanks.
I’m not going to blame the CB situation on this - we are still playing a high line, our fullbacks are still pushed up forward, our midfield isn’t playing particularly defensively. The only particular aspect of this is that we are losing Henderson in midfield - thus to me - we should be persisting with Williams / Phillips in defense.
We need to mix it up and be more direct. We are too one dimensional, at the moment, and our forwards are also out of form so we can’t expect them to pull a rabbit out of the hat.
We are crossing way too much, or keep passing, passing, passing… trying to find a hole when they have two banks of four… don’t find a particularly big one, run out of patience and attack from the flanks.
And it is easy to defend against. Right now we are lacking that penetrative run down the centre especially with Firmino out of form. Playing an additional attack-minded player like Jota, Keita, Minamino and Shaqiri definitely will help… as will moving Thiago forward and having Gini as the deepest midfielder. Having Salah take up that central role more could also help.
Pushing Gini forward doesn’t work consistently… there were a few times the last few games where he should have taken a chance, by turning and shooting. Instead, after making the run and getting the ball in a decent position… he would pass it backwards rather than taking the half-chance. His conservative approach doesn’t fit the situation we are facing.
Be serious. It’s EPL
We are not playing barcelona
That doesn’t add up sorry. Buy a centre back allows Henderson back into midfield. Fabinho back into midfield only happens if Matip is fit and we all know how that’s going. There’s other factors too maybe such as what side they play on etc.
I’m not saying it doesn’t need to happen more just pointing out how acute the problem is. There’s almost an argument for getting two centre backs in
Yeah, so if we buy one there’s a possibility we get Fab and Hendo back in midfield. However slim the chances are of Matip staying fit, it’s still a chance.
Buy no one and Fab is a centre back for the rest of the season. And I’d take a centre back playing on his less familiar side over centre mids playing unfamiliar positions any day.
100% Heat maps clearly show our defensive line v’s Utd (and fullbacks average position) pretty much as it was with Van Dijk playing.
The only thing which I do wonder, are our fullbacks not taking one risky balls because it’s not Van Dijk covering behind? Are they taking that extra second/touch to I guess consider the risks v’s playing on instinct.
The above only gets negated by playing the same center back pairing week in week out, we need some consistancy now. So to be blunt we need Matip fully fit and staying fit, jesus what a hope…As forlorn as you could get.
Thiago in there makes us look miles better there was deffo an issue with our final third play on Sunday as opposed to what has gone before.
I think Fabinho is there all season to be honest, well pretty much anyway. I don’t think one new centre back changes that. When Matip is a available you get a chance for rest maybe but that seems slim pickings at the moment.
But at least if gives you more midfield options which is certainly necessary I’d say. I’m really on tender hooks with regard to injuries at the moment. We could do with a good run where the whole squad is fit, bar the obvious.
This is really what I felt like writing but held back from doing so until now, because if it really was that simple we’re basically criticising our manager at a fundamental level of competence.
Clearly can’t be that simple then after all
I say simple but that’s obviously from the outside looking in. And it’s mainly looking at how we’ve changed this season compared to the last two and trying to revert to that. Maybe some of the changes are deliberate and maybe buying a centre back isn’t all that easy but at the moment we’re a shadow of the team we’ve been and this is where Klopp and the team earn their big bucks.
Fact is Rhys and Nat are not good enough. Rhys ,in particular, is a young lad and could improve dramatically but is he going to get much quicker at 19 YO ?. He makes me nervous and I am sure he has the same effect on his team mates. Nat is a little quicker and more aggressive but lacks a bit of quality and again I suspect makes his team mates nervous. We will not be signing a CB so really have to rely on Matip staying fit which is a big ask, or Hendo, which is a big loss in MF.
A big part of this game is psychological. If we can just get one or two players to get their heads up and be positive then maybe we will start getting the breaks and off we go.
During our current league run of three points from four matches, our shots for and against stats are as follows:
WBA 17-5
Newcastle 11-8
Southampton 17-7
Man Utd 17-8
(all figures taken from the official LFC website)
The defence is not the problem here. We are creating plenty of chances- more than our opponents in all four games- but we are not converting those chances into goals.
The front three need a kick up the backside/dropping/shooting.
Don’t remember the other games but we had four (Firmino 3, Salah 1) good chances to score against MU.
Go back to heavy metal football… win games 4-3 like we used too. Are our players not playing on instinct anymore and 2nd guessing themselves??? Get the ball moving fast again first pass forward with thiago now in the middle.
Front 3 need the ball into them quicker even though teams do sit back now against us. If we try invite them on then break maybe that will kick start us back into life. We used to score from defending corners at one stage…
I don’t see us changing much in terms of individual changes in positions, formations or style.
I think (until next summer) we’ll work more on the inside, maybe a few changes here and there depending on individual form, how we attack and defend as a whole.
Klopp puts a lot of focus on securing our attacks. Currently, we maybe have to protect more the issues we have at the back so it possibly also affects our attacking.
Some individuals are not helping themselves, that’s true. We have to go back to some technical basics. Less touches on the ball, more movement, simpler solutions.
We’re a little bit asleep, caught in repetitive stuff at the moment. Forcing too much. Need to start creating better chances again. Sort the movement and accuracy first, then play with intensity.
I don’t think you can get much quicker to the front 3 at the moment because teams generally sit back. Yeah, having Henderson and Fabinho at CB certainly doesn’t help the midfield, but let’s be honest, playing the likes of Rhys and Nat more often brings more risk in defence.
More accurate stuff on the ball, create better room for solutions, better individual finishing. Plus, working on sorting some bits our defensively, as much as we can with the current injuries we have there.
So Mo came out today and said he wants to stay as long as possible??
Problem solved. Will smash Burnley and whichever cunts are next.
I’m not sure how relevent it is to us playing poorly (or out of sync) against the Mancs but i noticed Klopp mentioned in his after match press conference (about Matips fitness and training sessions) that the team had a hard training session earlier in the day,it was mentioned before when we lost to Napoli in the CL last season,where they had a tripple session,earlier in the day before that game aswell.
If thats the case,maybe thats why we dropped off in the later end of the second half,should we really be having training sessions on match day or whats coming across as hard ones?
Problem is not shots on goal but decent opportunities, I think it was two very tame shots against De Gea.
Seen both Mane and Salah cut in and then try and take it past two further players, rather they hit it.