French journalist Julien Laurens was very positive regarding Lamine Camara and Sangare. He was very surprised that more clubs did not go for Sangare.
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I think Stevie was also saying something along those lines a few days ago.
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Ty for sharing. I think he made the early point in the video that was touched on yesterday in the transfer thread. You don´t necessarily need a ´dynamic´ midfield that is quick and powerful (ours actually are mostly fairly quick). He´s right.
Though inadvertently he kinda showed why I always say about specialists broadly. A ball player and a ball winner in midfield.
I think the ball winner can be an energetic ´destroyer´ type (masch) as long as the ball player next to them is more holding their position (Alonso), but it also works if the holding player is less energetic and more positionally disciplined (Fabinho) and his ball playing partner is a bit more free (Thiago for example). It gives you that platform and the balance of skills are covered.
Both can work but the key is that you don´t have two guys who charge around and you don´t have two guys who are defensive but not really focused on making things happen with the ball.
So with Wharton you´d have a more defensively minded player (be they energetic or more a Fabinho type) so anchor him. For me, Camara is a good anchoring player. He´s fairly quick and mobile but he´s not like Kone just running around. He more or less holds position.
I agree on Nyoni. Reads the game well and is positioned well. Has the nous it seems, as you say. i´d give him a go.
I donât mean to be a debbie downer. And I am more than happy to be proved wrong.
But I donât think Flo works in our team, our tactics, or indeed, the league.
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He works in the league just fine, but no he doesn´t work with the midfields we have been putting behind him, the movement in front and whatever our tactics have been.
I think he could work a bit better with Nyoni and to some extent Macalister though.
In a midfield 3 or nominally starting on the left wing position? Because that midfield would be too lightweight. What makes you think he works in the league. I see zero proof of it.
As the 10. Our current midfield is two 6foot plus athletes and hasnt helped. I don´t think Nyoni is lightweight, although we could pair him with Grav or Dom if we wanted.
Well he had a good run where he was getting goals and assists and dribbling past players. The league isn´t anything special. Worse players do well.
I was really excited when Wirtz signed but so far that hasnât really been justified.
With the current midfield options a double pivot 4-2-3-1 doesnât seem to work as we donât have the right balance, ideally I would want a passing deep lying playmaker and a more defensive midfielder as the two deeper players.
If we hadnât signed wingers we could have had Wirtz and Dom behind Isak as two AMs with 2 central midfielders, a DM that could drop back into defence and wingbacks providing width.
I will be really interested to see how we line up with Barcola added to the mix and how the balance in midfield can be improved with training and tactics rather than new personnel.
Itâs not his quality as a footballer. That is unquestionable. Itâs the pace and physical nature of the league. Even if he tricks his way past someone, for example, they will catch up to him. Flo doesnât have the speed to get away nor the strength to hold off challenges.
I think Wirtz is a player type who suits a team playing a specific type of football, and I think he needs to be the attacking hub. He had that at Leverkusen, where it was set up for him to be the main guy. A solid structure, freedom for him outside the structure; Xhaka always able to find him, a big target man plus Grimaldo and Hoffman to link up with around the penalty area, and always a willing runner ready for the through ball. It was a brilliantly functioning collective where everything centered around him.
We never committed to that last season, and Iâm curious to see how he does now under Iraola, who also has a very strong emphasis on the collective, but a different approach. Iâve said a few times I think Barcola will be someone heâll connect with, and Iâd like to see those two plus Ekitike play together and create a relation.
Iâll admit there were times last season I sort of wished he chose City rather than Liverpool, which probably would have left us getting Cherki. I think Wirtz would have been much better playing for Guardiola than in last seasonâs highly dysfunctional Liverpool team.
Cherki would have suffered as well, like Wirtz did, but I think he has some more maverick type of qualities compared to Flo, and maybe slightly more explosive out of the dribble, which makes him able to be a little less dependent on a functional collective to do his thing.
Itâs for sure a big, big season for Wirtz. Possibly a make or break for him at Liverpool, although that might be too dramatic. So we just have to hope it all ends up clicking.
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But did David Silva? Ozil wasnât exactly slow but he wasnât very strong. Those players make a yard of space and then hit a shot or pass usually. Cherki isnât exactly quick or strong
Letâs just give him a season where we set the team up to suit him and see how he does. Seems silly to spend all that money and not do that
There were stats showing that even last season when he looked off the pace a lot he was right at the top of the statistical categories related to chance creation. And that is one of the challenges of spending so much money on a player like him. When he is around good players playing well he will elevate them and look worth the money. But when the other players are struggling he isnt really the stevie or messi type to do things by himself and pull everyone along with him. Instead he is left waiting for someone to make the run that they donât make, or to have the confidence to finish a ball he set them up up for but they want too many touches. And weâre then left asking whatâs wrong with Wirtz.
There are improvements he can make for himself for sure, and he doesnt seem to be hiding from that. But the biggest thing we can do to unlock him is just get the game flowing and let him cook.
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Look at the teams that Silva and Ozil played in (great comparison by the way in terms of player profile). Look at the pieces around Cherki.
âMavericksâ or lower-mobility playmakers canât exist in a tactical vacuum. Theyâre entirely dependent on a highly functional collective which we donât have. And if we need to put ALL of that together for Wirtz to work then we are going about the way of winning arse about face.
Oh youâre spot on. Well said
You have to set up for them to thrive.
But if you can get a player like that in the right setup they make all the difference in my opinion. The very way setup you can have
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Totally agree. But how long will it take for us to get all the pieces needed to unlock Wirtz? That is my concern.
Thereâs more than one way to skin a cat. There is more than one system that wins the PL and the CL.
I just think we are going about it the wrong way. We canât change the entire system just to make one player work. Our squad is one season removed from the league. We just needed to replace the profile of players we no longer had over time.
What youâre saying is pretty much completely change how we play.
For one player.
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It might be one season removed but we have lost a lot of the players from that season, either literally gone or in terms of quality like van dijk and Ali
But yes Iâd have focused immediately on getting midfielders and attackers suited to Wirtz (Barcola is I think). To be honest he just needs a midfielder to get him the ball nicely and a solid holding player. Easily doable for a team of our size, you would think
And well itâs connected for more than one player. Isak thrives with the service as do our wide players. And getting good DM and passing midfielders is never a bad thing
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Agreed on the midfielders. We need two.
I think Barcola will really help unlock Wirtz and Isak. Also, Gakpo playing on the right will help as well by getting to the byline and playing balls into the box on the floor.
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We donât have a âLiverpool tactics discussionâ thread so sharing here.
The reasoning that made Liverpool buy Wirtz makes sense to me now based on what @Limiescouse said about why we bought Frimpong.
The idea was to find a lasting solution to teams sitting deep to nullify our attacking threat.
That might also be the reason why Grav was not only given license but actively encouraged to go on line-breaking runs once he had turned his marker with the ball.
Wirtz did do just that (unlock defences) in the record breaking season for Leverkusen.
But he is a system player. He needs the team setup just right to thrive. And maybe the idea IS to create the system for him here.
Last season we were completely muddled in our approach to breaking down low blocks and in the process we messed up whatever manner of control we had in matches.
Wirtz needs the system around him that has not materialised yet, which is why he seems a fish out of water.
My question is, we got rid of Arne when this very big transformation looks like his and Hughesâ brainchild. But Iraola doesnât work like that. So what is to be the approach next? Currently weâre left with a squad thatâs neither here nor there.
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