This is all a bit weird.
I said we have 8-10 CMs depending on your point of view. Your point of view is that we have eight. I’m not even saying you’re wrong. I’m acknowledging that other people might have a slightly broader definition on Centre Mid.
Why the fuck are you are even arguing?
Because what you’re saying is masking the issue we’re discussing which is the concerns people have over the midfield unit. Not the number of players but the durability of the senior players and the relative inexperience of ones who are likely going to have to play more than is ideal.
Saying Trent or Firmino can play there is like saying Robbo can cover Diaz. Sure, he could play there but it would be far from ideal for a team with aspirations of winning the league and Champions League. Counting players like Badjetic in the numbers is akin to saying Bobby Clark offers depth behind Nunez. On a pure numbers basis that is true but it completely ignores all the context.
Carvalho plays as a 10 or a wide forward. We don’t play with a 10 very often. Yes, he played in midfield in some preseason fixture for a bit but they aren’t competitive fixtures and having not played that role at Fulham to think we could drop him into our midfield with the way they play seems unlikely to me.
If it’s all too weird for you then stop replying. I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m just trying to stop you minimising my opinion with your dismissive and juvenile digs.
@rab we could sign someone then that player gets injured - i can see the narrative then being “thank god we have 8 midfielders” (in general but not necessarily your narrative)
your post seems a bit WHAT IF doom theory. worst case scenario.
klopp will sign someone if he thinks that is necessary. IF we don’t then he’s earned our trust.
I for one am super laid back on this kind of issue these days. Klopp knows best. If he buys a player, it’s ok. If not, it’s ok as well. The youngsters get valuable experience then, and we move on from there.
That doesn’t mean that Klopp and the club are infaillible though. Two years ago, they got it badly wrong with hindsight, and I’m sure they’d acknowledge it. The proof is that they went for Kabak’s short-term loan move in January.
But on the other hand, not panicking and not going in for a permanent fourth center back allowed them to land Konaté at the end of that season. The player they really wanted, and who has been a success so far for us.
So again, it’s great to see our club in good, responsible hands, with a clear plan and a vision unfolding under our eyes with time going by. Short-term hickups can always happen, but they won’t derail the general intents and direction we have undertaken.
Sure, there’s a degree of ‘what if’ in my thinking. But that ‘what if’ has been there since it was reported our business was done and two of the lads who are prone to injuries have already picked up medium term injuries. So ‘what if’ is already coming to fruition to some degree.
At this point, we’re a twinge in Naby’s hamstring away from Fab, Hendo and Elliott/Milner pretty much starting every game for the next month.
I trust Klopp and the team but that doesn’t mean blind faith. We left ourselves short of centre backs and I was vocal then about that seeming to be short. People said it was fine because Fab could play there and that didn’t work out that well. So to see the same ‘it’s fine, x,y,z can play there’ or ‘a,b or c is only out for a few weeks so we’ll be fine when they come back’ makes me think back to that time and how poorly that worked for us.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind here but im also not looking to be told im acting like some kid on FIFA or im one of those that want signings for the sake of it for what is a fairly legitimate concern.
Where are you @AnfieldRdDreamer 
I think the issue when fab went to CB was we lost him from midfield then we did the same with hendo! which was like putting your hand in the fire because it is a bit wet.
I don’t disagree that it is not the best of situations with the midfield and I don’t think you are being ‘fifa kid’.
Not trying to put words in your mouth but it appears that if we could sign someone now that is a long term replacement for hendo milly etc you feel now would be the perfect time? rather than just sign someone to cover the injuries/potential injuries.
I think that is how i understand you point of view and if it is that then it seems perfectly sensible reasoning.
Gone into hiding after suggesting we sign Dele Alli this summer gone.
To tell the truth, presuming you are talking about Elliott and Jones here, I think its very unfair to be calling them inexperienced in any context. We aren’t talking Tyler Morton levels of experience. The only thing keeping them out of playing far more games are players like Hendo, Thiago, Fab, and Keita, who to be fair are greater players at this point. I may be wrong on this but I don’t recall Milner for example keeping either of those guys out of the team. They are first team ready. They desperately need game time to continue on their upward trajectory. I only see great things from Elliott. Jones is an incredibly skillfull player, with some things going against him like mobility, but I also see him as a longer term Henderson replacement.
I am probably completely opposite to you on this in that I really do want to see these two grow here and for them to get loads of game time, even if that means avoiding bringing in a new flavour to the team via the transfer market.
I am almost certain that Carvalho played 95% of his time at Fulham as an attacking midfielder. Klopp has made plenty of suggestions that he will play as a number 10 as well as a wide forward. I can see us playing a double pivot much more as the season progresses, particularly as Carvalho but just as importantly, Nunez, gets more comfortable and settled at the club. Early doors, we will probably only play that formation against certain teams where we expect it to work well.
Let’s face it if we did want Matheus Nunes we’d have pulled the trigger, he has a release clause of around £45mil.
It would get a bit confusing with Nunez…
I’d strongly disagree. Just because a strategy that would yield the results you want 9 out of 10 times went wrong the one time doesn’t mean that it was wrong to choose it, and that you would regret choosing it.
Kabak’s loan move was more of risk management after the absolute worst case scenarios happened, and yet even then we ended up playing Phillips and Williams anyway.
So it is your PTSD over 2020-21 then?
Let’s, for the sake of argument, agree that JK likes to generally play a 4-3-3 with one holding player and two ‘engine room’ players in midfield. The DM is obviously Fabinho, the others are Keita and Thiago, although the latter can create with the best.
The issue as far as I can see it is that the existing available cover for K & T is is either unavailable though injury or are inexperienced at top level or are an U21 player. Keita and Thiago are both injury prone; I think that is fair to say. This problem will not go away.
These 8 CMs that you claim we have are in fact distributed into three separate groups, that is, defensive midfielders (of which we have only one- Fabinho), central midfielders (K & T, Hendo, Jones and Milner - Elliot?) attacking midfielders (Fabio Cav and Ox - who sadly might as well take up permanent residence on the fitness table). I don’t think even the manager knows how to utilise Elliot to the best of his ability yet. The players within these groups all perform specific roles and are not interchangeable without a drop in performance level. Placing all these players with their different skill sets in the same group and expecting them to do the same job is being both disingenuous and unrealistic imo.
It follows then that we have in fact just five CMs, - 6 if you include Elliot - two of which are injury prone (the go to ones , sadly), two are at the veteran stage, whilst the others are still learning their trade.
I would therefore argue that we DO need another experienced, specialised CM of sufficient quality to hold down a first team place. Why did we put our hat in the ring for Tchouameni if not to accomplish that?
Sorry to go on, but several people on here don’t appear to recognise the different specialist roles that players have to perform under the midfield ‘umbrella’.
I’d say Henderson is a fantastic defensive midfielder (a no.6 in our world), in fact he is better at that than box to box.
We set up in a 433, it’s a very clearly defined system, especially in midfield. We have;
No.6 - The defensive midfielder, sits and protects the defence, shifts left to right to cover the fullbacks, primarily role in possession is to quickly retain possession and create passing angles and options.
No.8 Left Sided - The “creator”, this changed significantly when we upgraded Gini to Thiago. Helps defend the left side but in possession is always looking to break the lines with progressive passing, quick switches of play, dribbling into the area and creating overloads with the leftback.
No.8 Right Sided - The “controller”, this again has evolved over time to be a very demanding role, defensively needs to cover for Trent and in attack/possession constantly create small technical triangles and overlaps with Salah/Trent and constantly trying to create space for them by running wide or into the box
This is why I see Carvalho, Jones and Elliot being more than able to play that left sided no.8 its basically a no.10 with defensive duties. Our biggest problem is more Fabinho and Henderson being out of form.
Ideally next game we’d line up Elliot - Henderson - Keita.
There has been no evidence that Elliott will play LCM, and Thiago/Keïta do not play that position as “a no. 10 with defensive duties”.
I don’t have a horse in this race, but people are coming out with some really weird bits of analysis.
I think if you could offer Klopp the chance to go back in time and run that window again, he wouldn’t do anything different.
We’d identified Konate and were willing to wait.
What Klopp would do different (he said so) was to bring in Phillips and Williams earlier, and not weaken the midfield trying to patch up the defence.
It’s not even that now is the perfect time. I think the perfect time was about six weeks ago when we did the rest of our business because the fitness issues with some players was inevitable. I’m not reacting to the Ox and Thiago injuries and suggesting a short term reactionary signing, they are just the first signs of what I was expecting to happen and what I would have liked us to be more prepared for.
I want to see them get game time too. But they are 21 and 19 and have relatively little experience compared to others. Yes we need to get them game time but you want that to be managed and nurtured, not chucked in the deep end when we’re short of options to take them out if needs be. Back end of last season is a case in point. We didn’t want to overload Elliott after his injury and his performances were okay but we needed another level than what he was able to deliver. It’s a sensible approach with young players.
Nope. Going into that season I said I thought we were short at CB and risking it with two players who had injury issues. I’m saying very similar now because I think we’re short of what we need in midfield. 2020/21 is just evidence that an over reliance on players with checkered injury histories can be pretty detrimental to a season.
The best comparrison I can give for Thiago on the left is David Silva for City. For me that’s a no.10 playing deeper, certainly the more progressive of the midfielders.
Of course it’s less than ideal. We’re in the realm of talking about who plays midfield when eight other midfielders are unavailable.
When you are talking about that level depth inevitably it’s going to be a kid from the U18s or U23s, or another layer filling in.
Who is Man City’s ninth midfielder? Yangel Herrera?
I do appreciate your point about the robustness of the midfield, and as I’ve said, I’d have liked to have got another midfielder, and seen Ox or Keita move on. But they have to be willing to go. There had to be a club to take them.
But you and I have the luxury of seeing players as abstract things. Klopp can’t do that. He has to see the players as human beings, and consider how this then relates to team spirit and morale.
Klopp cannot and will not sign a midfielder, and then say to Keita ‘You’re fifth choice now mate and you’re not going to play much, suck it up. By the way sign this contact’. He isn’t going to say to Ox ‘Fuck off lad. You’re done here. You’re playing in the U23s until you get lost’. If you think that’s an option, you simply haven’t been paying attention for the last five years.
You can’t just stockpile players. It’s a much, much more complicated equation than that.
Hmm. I’m saying Bajetic is our tenth midfielder. Who do you think our tenth forward option is?