The Central Midfield Thread

I think the age thing is a little too arbitrary. Assuming all players mature at the same rate, and play games at the same rate, then age is the number.

But a fella like Jude Bellingham, for example, is young, but also mature and experienced. If there can be such a thing. So Bellingham being a mainstay in our midfield, right away should he come, would not be a problem.

If we are looking at a trio, say Bajcetic, Caicedo and Bellingham, it looks really good, but overall I want the best of what our old guard have left to rotate in with it, while it gets established.

2 Likes

Exactlyā€¦half a season in Portugal.

Caicedo has huge experience at high level? Really? I beg to differ. I would argue only Bellingham has any kind of real experience out the 3 of them and even 2 years ago in his first real season at BVB he took the league by storm which goes to show how quickly prospectsā€¦talented prospects can shoot themselves into stardom.

Which I think does not equate to a 120-130m outlay.

I think dropping that kind of money on Enzo would be irresponsible. You canā€™t benchmark that kind of football at that kind of money.

2 Likes

It also shows the wisdom of young prospects getting their first 100 games in leagues/teams where the pressure is a bit less and they can develop.

You only have to look at the shit Harvey is getting to see that young players need patience and time.

3 Likes

either you have ā€œitā€ or you donā€™t. Harvey was a RW prospect who has been moved into the midfield to cover shortage of bodies. heā€™s not good enough of a midfielder to go there. Isnā€™t able to make space in the final third, and if you look at what weā€™re getting out of Salah who is the winger on his side, itā€™s fairly pedestrian on that side of the pitch these days.

Is is Elliotā€™s fault? Maybe not, but I think heā€™s going to go the way of Luis Alberto. Solid winger or possibly a midfielder somewhere else, but isnā€™t able to affect the output of games here to be successful.

I fear the same for Jones, but I think as the resident scouser heā€™ll be kept a bit longer.

3 Likes

Aye during this period Dortmund have had some awful performances, ones that have seen them cycle through 2 permanent managers, an intermediate caretaker, and then back tot he caretaker. Jude has had his highpoints, but his youthfulness and relative inexperience has also been evident in a series of really naĆÆve performances from the team as a whole. If done here, heā€™d have been ripped apart for many of those. He now has those 2 and half seasons under his belt and has benefited from the experience.

4 Likes

Hasnā€™t he basically only ever played midfield for us? I remember prior to his injuries last season he was already our starting midfielder, not that we needed to squeeze him in there.

1 Like

He has proven himself in the Premier League. He is as low risk as it gets. I think we pay whatever to get him in January. Heā€™s just what we need imho.

Harvey has not been playing great, if ever, for quite a while now. If the team is flying and strangling the life out of the opposition then it is easier to hide a players flaws and give them time to find their feet.
Yet we are, and have been playing crap for so long now and yet Harvey is still getting first team starts, but hey-ho, good luck to him.
Great experience for him, not so great if you are the other two midfielders expected to take up the slack of someone so young. Makes me wonder if there is deeper narrative at play here. An endgame of FSG and their quest to increase the sale value of LFC that is not so easy to determine or even guess at. Sometimes wonder if Harvey is being put into the shop window first and foremost as the first of many potential assets that Kirkby possess. As inā€¦
" Look at this kid Harvey, cost us a couple of million quid, but in ten years will be worth 100times thatā€¦"
It sort of mirrors exactly what they have done to our beloved LFC and increased its value ten-foldā€¦ Canā€™t do that with a prospect unless he plays and becomes one of the greats of the game.
When the boys are playing as inconsistent and without any belief as they have been doing, it sort of makes your mind cross the borders into areas of the speculative or downright ridiculousā€¦ or does it.!!!

How it quickly changesā€¦

Not long ago, it was ā€œElliott is no wingerā€.

These days itā€™s ā€œanyone but Elliott in midfieldā€.

The coaching staff probably feel his best potential is to be more of a creator than a wide forward, attacking spaces. That doesnā€™t mean heā€™s the finished product. That also doesnā€™t mean the position is his problem.

He had good games so far this season, but lately, his level dropped.

If heā€™s playing on the right, he wonā€™t play as a proper winger, but more tucked in the half space.

And even more going back, I remember people predicting their Liverpool best XI with Elliott in.

6 Likes

Prem proven doesnā€™t really mean anything to me tbh, nor do I think it should it count as a reason to sign a player.

Mignolet Lovren Clyne Lallana Lambert Allen - these were all proven Prem players too, none of them proved to be good enough to step up and thatā€™s the key, being good enough.

90% of Cityā€™s squad were players signed from abroad who came straight in the squad because they were good enough.

What this boils down to is the fact Elliot isnā€™t good enough to be starting regularly for us regardless of position, not if we want to reach 18-20 or 21-22 levels.

There was way too much excitement over a few games last season, sustaining that level in a winning team for a long time is a different story.

Iā€™ve seen Elliot compared to D.Silva and Bernardo on here, whose level heā€™s obviously very far away from, but even they hadnā€™t broken into Valencia and Benficaā€™s teams at 19. Odegaard is a less similar (but still similar enough) type player whoā€™s only just finding prominence at the top level now at 24 despite being an outrageously talented teenager.

Weā€™ve put too much responsibility on him too soon and heā€™s struggling.

8 Likes

Great post in regards to Elliot, he started prominently but his defensive side of the game is way below par for us but not through the lack of effort, he just canā€™t tackle.

I still think he can learn the role but being a supporter he has put a lot of pressure on himself and looks to be trying too hard

True.

When our midfield was still working really well, I remember some calls that Elliott needs to replace Hendo. We fans always rush it with some calls. Sometimes rightly, but often wrongly.

You get talents who need less time, itā€™s just how it is. Not everyone can get the same amount of time/patience. Theyā€™re here on merit, thereā€™s a chance. The rest is up to them. Sometimes itā€™s 20, 50, sometimes 100 games.

I still like Elliott as a talent, but things are complicated. Not everyone is a David or Bernardo Silva. Or even a Foden.

We also get attached to young talent, feeling like they all need (or will) to make it here.

Iā€™m not sure if weā€™ll be able to see everyone of the current bunch; Bajcetic, Jones, Elliott and Carvalho make it here. Itā€™s so hard, if we talk about wanting to win leagues and CLā€™s.

If we get 1 quality player (long term) out of them I will be very happy.

1 Like

I think itā€™s looking very likely that we will work out an arrangement with Wolves for Mateus Nunes in the summer. There seems to be a lot of noise about that one, and now Paul Joyce is getting in on the act.

I also think we really want Bellingham, and would see Ā£150m for the pair of them as good business. So would I, and I think that would set things up nicely in midfield.

However, I would also be looking at making the Trent switch now. We need more quality in midfield, and I think Trent needs to make that move now. It isnā€™t working for him at right back - itā€™s arse clenching when a winger runs at him, and heā€™s now also stopping notching the assists with such regularly. The problems in midfield are having a direct impact on his effectiveness as a full back so why not make the switch now.

Joe Gomez is a perfectly capable fullback and if the defence is going to be exposed as it it is at the minute, Iā€™d feel a lot happier with Joe there than Trent.

2 Likes

You can see a pathway for Bajcetic. He is obviously quality, as they all are. But crucially you can see a position for him.

With Jones, I think it comes down to fitness. I think he is a potentially excellent midfielder, and I think his real skill is recycling possession and keeping the ball in tight spaces. Similar to Gini, but possibly without his engine.

With Elliot and Carvalho, to me they look built to play in the three of a 4231. And we donā€™t seem to want to look at that system.

3 Likes

I think is Trent is not just fine, but has become very good defending in those sorts of 1-1 situations. Where he suffers is when there are things happening and he needs to make a decision, or needs to recognize something and respond to it - failing to put himself in the position necessary to defend a situation. He looks like a player who is overthinking things, or at least struggling to make decisions. On several occasions this season you can see him caught in between decisions, or takes a decision he doesnt have faith in leaving him unable to get bacl and make it right. This is something I just casually threw out there last summer with all that cerebro training. But there continue to be performances by several players this season that scream that is what is happening.

Those issues are only going to get harder if you move him into CM

2 Likes

Nunes went to Wolves for 45m euro and signed a 5 year contract.
If we are going to go for him in the summer he is not going to move for a reasonable price. Be hoping Wolves get relegated to give ourselves a better chance.

One of the statements is that Mendes only agreed to move him to Wolves with a reasonable get out clause.

2 Likes

It makes sense now why he is linked. Thanks for letting me know.