Should be more. I don’t think this fine is enough to alter the horrible behaviour of Poland, but I guess there are important political considerations so that the penalty won’t be too harsh for fear of Poland’s Nationalist government using it as a rallying cry for nefarious reasons. Poland becomes more and more authoritarian and less and less democratic by the day, and it is just truly sad. They are far from Hungary but that is the clear and stark path they have been moving towards under the current government. I am quite worried. Worse, they are one of the state benefiting the most from EU funding. I am quite, quite annoyed at how much Norwegian money goes into Poland.
This is a culture clash between 1950’s Catholic morals and contemporary Western ethics and it is only sad regardless what comes from this. No doubt Poland is the most ungrateful EU member state considering what money they take from the Union and the EFTA, and it is awful to see their behaviour not punished more harshly. And yet I understand why.
A geopolitical punishment the EU could use, without mentioning it, stating it, or anything like that, is to be more “understandable” when it comes to Russia and less protective of Poland’s interests. This could perhaps alter Polish behaviour, since the EU fundamentally protects Poland in that area. But this ought to be used as a more of a last resort since Russian interests hardly aligns with Western interests.
Perhaps in a 100 years from now, all of Europe accepts that some people are gay and stops making the life of gay people difficult and let sexuality be a personal matter, or perhaps not. Ironically, today Poland and Hungary has more in common with Russia than the West when it comes to that matter.
I agree. Instead of doing everything to further modernize their country and integrate themselves into a solid and democratic European Union, they do the contrary. This is especially disappointing after they had a really good start after their integration into the EU. But now, they are destroying everything they have created since then.
Sooner or later, they will be easy fodder for the Russians again if they continue like that. Idiots.
I can understand that. That’s a lot of money down the flush.
Yes, it’s as if they wished to enter their influence zone again. Idiots.
To offer an alternative view this is supposedly about EU law conflicting with the Polish constitution, not simply about the primacy of EU law on certain issues that been recognised since Factortame, long before Poland joined the EU.
The German constitutional courts have also fired several broadsides at the EU if viewed as being contrary to the German constitution.
It’s on these issues that sovereignty (the scope of it) is particularly under the microscope. The Poles have also, traditionally, been fairly closely aligned with the UK on these sorts of issues (not necessarily Russia) so this doesn’t come as much surprise to me. Certainly there will be a number of EU countries who are not automatic supporters of EU intervention here.
There are parallel factors here. Whilst there are serious questions about Polands views on rights of sectors of society, there is also a serious question on EU intrusion on national sovereignty.
For clarity, I dont support the Poland viewpoint either, better explained by @Magnus
The simple thing for the EU is to expell all nations that dont sign up to a collective constitution.
See how that works out.
The trade agreement has grown into a political behemoth, and maybe its time to curtail that growth.
Nothing? By doing what they do, Poland and Hungary amongst others are actively weakening the EU, and thus, weakening the potential strength and unity of NATO, especially with the US gradually losing strength and influence.
The result? Eventually, they might become easy fodder for Russia again.
I guess that this could really serve as a wake-up call for these nations. In terms of concretely asking them what they actually want?
That won’t happen though. My point is that no matter how member nations behave, the EU will want them in or force them to leave themselves.
Poland refusing to play ball will lead to further financial sanctions that simply cannot be enforced, thus Poland making an exit decision.
Then the EU can claim unity amongst member nations.
I think the whole idea of encroaching on sovereignty is ultimately the downfall of the union.
Tbh at some point they had to reconcile the somewhat strange paradox of continuously voting for an anti-EU party while a vast majority of their population is supposedly pro-EU, more so than most other countries. Never made a whole lot of sense. Maybe this leads to some clarity down the road. If the Polish people really want to leave - fine with me personally.
I don’t think Poland wants to leave the EU but neither will they stand down. And if they get sanctions, they will just veto every single motion that the EU proposes as a member (not sure in legal they can do that, but I thought as a equal member, they could do that) Not exactly sure why and how (because I had not really read up and being non-European, I am not really in line with the news) the Polish courts decision and announcement is seen as so divisive?
Also, would the EU one day or should it eventually morph into an union that focus only on economic cooperation rather than ‘forcing’ a very large region of different clusters of culture and values and beliefs and say, there should only be one set of values and behaviours. While that seem ideal, but I think the extreme parties will start questioning who should dictate that ‘one set of values or behaviours’? And they will point to certain countries who because of their economic strengths to dictate what is the ‘right’ values. And in a way they are correct to think of that from their perspective so for discussion, would one day the EU can change into a union that just focus on economic and peace cooperation rather than trying to streamline even values and behaviours etc… abit like ASEAN over here in Singapore, where we have like 10 countries of different languages, cultures, religion, economic development even if we are side by side, so we had said before that putting these 10 countries into a bloc like EU would never work but still, it should not stop us from working on other areas like economy and peace etc. Just for discussion?
There are crucial issues on which international cooperation is vital as we have learned only too well in the last couple of years. Europe has to be able to work together on these issues and has to have a common understanding of basic values in order to do so.
It doesn’t matter how green your policies are if your neighbours are climate change deniers, it doesn’t matter how strict your lockdown if your neighbours are anti-vaxxers, it doesn’t matter how high your taxes if your neighbours pay nothing. Berlin is an hour from the Polish border. Thousands of Poles work here and are part of the economy and society. We couldn’t isolate ourselves even if we wanted to.
Sorry, this is in German, but it’s interesting, and probably understandable to most.
Here are the favourite destinations for migrants from EU countries.
It’s from 2019. Not sure how different it would look pre-Brexit.
