Biden is a about 100 years old and doesn’t know the time of day.
Netanyahu has been through more US Presidents than I care to remember.
Israel won’t twiddle their thumbs while Arabs plan to murder Jews.
Agreed. I think a big part of the middle east regimes would not shed a tear if the entire Israel and the Jewish people eradicated tomorrow. And the scary thing is substantial numbers of common people would take that stand in some parts of the Arab world. I always shared my work presentation I had once to my Middle East office and in the boardroom I saw a map that conspicuously had an empty space of the Middle East region. I casually asked half expecting a funny answer. Until one of my local colleagues said coldly, that’s Israel, they should not have existed. And that to me is the reason that if Israel showed even an ounce of weakness or retreat, they will be bombed out of their shit by the Arab world.
Of course while saying that, I also oppose Israel becoming exactly what they claim to protect themselves from. In defending against terrorists, does that give an excuse to become one yourself. I don’t know. The fact is none of us or at least most of us, while agreeing thst killing innocent commoners are wrong in all senses, we do not understand the threat and fear each side fear of not even having a home the next day because someone decides to bomb you out of your shit.
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Israel started going down this slope once a moderate like Rabin was silenced.
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Biden is old enough , and wise enough , to realise that lending legitimacy to an administration that was cobbled together from an assortment of religious extremists , racists , and political firebrands (now ministers) who at one time belonged to a terrorist organisation is probably not the greatest look for the leader of the free world. He also knows that this unholy alliance was formed with the overriding intention of keeping its leader out of jail.
Netanyahu’s attack on the rule of law , giving himself the power to overrule the Supreme Court and appoint judges , is also something Biden felt he couldn’t countenance and had to speak out about. The extraordinary sight of a US President seeming to interfere in domestic Israeli politics is testament to the seriousness of the situation.
But they (the IDF) will turn a blind eye and even join in when Jews take it upon themselves to murder Arabs. Settler attacks and vigilantism has rocketed since Netanyahu made his comeback , which is hardly surprising considering that the ministers now in charge of security in the West Bank are themselves from the religious extremist / settler community. The Israeli State which had long been suspected of tolerating nationalist terrorism is now actively complicit in it.
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Some radicalized palestinians*
Most of the other Arab countries have made their peace with Israel.
‘Some radicalised Palestinians’ - sadly , many of the defenders and apologists of the State of Israel are all too happy to go along with the racist trope that all Palestinians are terrorists.
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Also they ignore the reason why a section of Palestinians have become radicalized.
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The hatred of the “Jew” propagated in quite a lot of places in ME and Asia is unnerving. No doubt that’s a factor in Israel taking a harder line. But when does it come to the stage of enough being enough ?
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Biden can do the public posturing. But end of, USA will still be giving Israel aid by the billions every year. Biden does his public posturing for popularity but like the case with Saudi Arabia , he or any other President will not take too much action against Netanyahu or MBS for that matter.
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I remember going to Israel during Rabin’s time. I met a girl there, who was preparing herself for her two-year obligatory military service (two years for girls, three years for boys). I asked her if it was bothering her. She answered no, that Israel was in a state of war, and that it was natural for her to help protecting her country. She said that if people refused to serve, Israel would be rapidly eradicated.
In that moment, I realised the level of fear these people are accustomed to live with.
Certainly. That is a reason why in the early days of Singapore independence, we sought the help of Israel to train our first conscripted men in the army. Because they fully know and experienced what it means to be a small country that is surrounded by countries who will destroy them if they could.
It has been a long time since and while I can’t agree with everything the current Israeli government is doing, we cannot just ignore the fear they have been living in ever since. These are real and even for Singapore, the threat is low now but we still have the odd ‘let’s take Singapore’ rhetoric from big neighborly politicians
Israeli armed forces are battle hardened and disciplined. I think it’s become a way of life for them (serving in the military services that is). A lot of Israel’s present actions have been the actions and reactions of themselves and other neighbouring countries.
At this stage, No one should be questioning on whether the country has a right to exist. It’s done and over with , for good or for bad. Countries should be concerned about how to ensure that the Palestinian refugee crisis is dealt with. Isolating Israel isn’t the answer and neither does Israel care because both Russia and USA have given them recognition. Almost all the countries in the world (the major ones atleast) trade with Israel in some form or the other.
There is always a small place syndrome when it comes to countries which border bigger ones and the smaller countries feeling threatened. For example , Israel vs their neighbours - Singapore vs theirs - Pakistan vs India.
The major difference being that Israel isn’t the David anymore. It’s the Goliath in terms of military power (in that area).
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@Hope.in.your.heart @gasband @Sithbare
First of all, I’m not very good at articulating my thoughts; so apologies if I offend you.
The existential crisis that Israel propagates is pure propaganda, amplified by the media. Since the 1980s they have attacked and occupied Lebanon, Jerusalem, Gaza, and West Bank. Then, there’s the relentless, systematic, and mindless invasion & occupation into West Bank spanning over two decades. Is there much difference between what Israel is doing and what the colonialists had done for centuries?
The fact that the right-wing parties win more votes means that the madness has spread wide and deep. For many Israelis the West Bank is the Wild West and they are cowboys seeking adventure, conquest, and glory; even worse, they consider it their divine obligation. It’s the Taliban, IS, AQ in a different package.
If I’m philosophical, I would say Israel is just the way of the world. Might is right, vanquished are irrelevant. But there’s no reason or fairness.
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Has its foundations on the six day war between the Arab countries and Israel in 1967. There’s a lot of difference between what happened in 1967 to what happened now. But the fear of Arab countries invading Israel etc still remains entrenched within Israelis and is propogated extensively by the authorities.
Israel now doesn’t have any existential crisis. That is propaganda. But they aren’t the first country to brainwash their citizens and neither will they be the last.
About the right wing parties getting more and more votes , The entrenched fear that the propaganda propagates has a large part to do with it. There have been increasing number of countries which move towards right wing politics of late (including India , Turkey , Israel…) and that i believe is something which is a cycle. Sooner or later , People are going to get fed up with right wing politics and then go back to left wing politics or centrism at the very least.
A large part of the fear that is propagated by the Israeli govt and their machinery has the Arab countries to blame as well. There have been way too many threats/fatwas made (ineffectual /impotent threats) by govt leaders and religious leaders who ought to know better.
Now the hatred of the Jew is fully entrenched in the muslim world I’m afraid forgetting the fact that there are quite a lot of Jews (outside of Israel) and maybe a sizable percentage within Israel (who are silenced because of the mob shouting and drowning their voices) who disagree with the policies of the Israeli establishment. This hatred espoused by leaders of muslim countries and religious muslim leaders in turns further enables Israelis an excuse to buckle down further and give no inch. This becomes a vicious cycle with seemingly no end.
I get what you mean. I see both sides of the coin as I mentioned, I don’t like the fact that Israel is now becoming the very terrorists they were defending themselves from. But I also see the fact that the situation in this part of the world is not just about ‘lets just stop’. There is that fear, and I would say that its justified, that the moment Israel stop showing their might, they will just get run over. No doubt that their military might is way above many countries in the Middle East, but to us, it might be a matter of bullying the weak, to them its a matter of looking big so no one ever think of repeating 1947 or 1967 again. We can say its a long time ago, but like I said, my feeling is that if the Arab world could, they would eradicate Israel today. In fact its not just the Arab world, its pretty much a huge part of the Islamic world. If today I go to Israel even as a tourist and get a stamp in my passport, I am banned from visiting my neighbour Malaysia and Brunei, not surprisingly pretty much Islamic countries. I cannot say it is widespread but I have muslim friends in Singapore, who are pretty much moderate usually, told me they would not shed a tear if Israel disappears from the face of this earth.
Again, I sympathize with all commoners both in Palestine and Israel because they ultimately are the ones who suffer but all I am saying is that its not about one side stopping because the history of aggression in this region is way more than I could ever understand.
Meanwhile half a million dead in Syria.
If that’s what they do to each other I hate to see what they do to their enemies.
Least we forget the Arabs kicking the shit out of Liverpool supporters before the CL Final.
You are adding precisely nothing to this conversation , apart from illuminating your own prejudice. If you want to engage in ridiculous whataboutism then maybe you’d be better advised doing it elsewhere.
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This post is offensive and ignorant.
There is civil war in Syria, largely being propagated by outside forces. There have been countless civil wars all over the world, what does that say about all the peoples who were involved in them?
The CL final comment is completely absurd. What on earth has that got to do with the Israel situation?
You are obviously looking for arguments to justify your bigotry.
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As far as any existential threat to Israel goes , that’s always been a red herring. The US has guaranteed Israel’s security since 1967 , not just with the implicit promise of coming to the defence of an ally in time of war but also with an annual budget of $2bn. Netanyahu has dined out on the Iran threat for his entire political career and it is what has propelled him to the premiership twice. Granted that the hardliners in Iran have made his job easier over the years , but even after Ahmadinejad made his notorious remarks back in 2005 about wiping Israel off the map , even the Ayatollah was forced to come out and walk those comments back. No-one seriously believes that Iran would be involved in a first strike , nuclear or otherwise , against Israel because they know their country would be immediately devastated. Far from being a threat , Iran’s pursuit of a nuclear weapon is seen as a guarantor of its own survival.
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