UK Politics Thread (Part 2)

2 Likes

Better than Liz Truzz, who was too ideologically (freedoooooooooom, freeeeeedoooom) opposed to even an advisory campaign as to how to save energy.
And yes, I know the bar is low. But still. The only danger here is of course where will he take the money from since he doesnā€™t like Keynes, and so it wonā€™t be borrowed.

Tory councillor suspended after picture emerges of him in a ā€˜blackshirtā€™ at rally for fascist group | Daily Mail Online
" Tory councillor who claimed he was exploring a research interest in Oswald Mosley when he posed in ā€˜blackshirtā€™ uniform with fascist group New British Union is suspended - but denies authoring anti-Semitic posts written under his name on his website"

Looks like somebody ā€œhackedā€ his site and photoshopped his pictures.
What are the chances of that.

1 Like

I always wonder when driving through France how the UK copes without the tax generated from road vehicle users. I realise motorway tax is not a free service: Designing the entire motorway network so that toll booths are efficiently positioned, paying for wages at these toll booths (though most obviously are unmanned (or womanned). But still I imagine its a taxation the French government makes a lot of money on despite the costs. UK gets none of that, and the lack of revenue in any form from cars here in the UK is stupid.

2 Likes

Dog ate my homework.

Vehicle excise duty - Office for Budget Responsibility.
ā€œIn 2022-23 we estimate that VED will raise Ā£7.2 billion. That represents 0.7 per cent of all receipts and is equivalent to around Ā£250 per household and 0.3 per cent of national income.ā€

The infamous ā€œroad taxā€(big discussion basically ending in itā€™s not road tax itā€™s VED).
Iā€™m not sure how that compares to the income generated by road tolls in France.

1 Like

I canā€™t comment on the French system but any toll roads in the UK were originally tolled to cover the cost of building it. A good example is the Second Severn Crossing which was tolled. That was run by the consortium that built and financed the bridge. It opened in 1996. That passed back into public ownership in 2018 and all tolls have subsequently been removed.

Many argue that the money received from tolls on both Severn crossings from 1996 through to 2018 covered the cost of building and managing the assets by a considerable margin. The finance deal for the Second Severn included managing tolls from the first bridge as well.

Thereā€™s a lot of objection to tolls in the UK and road tax in general.

2 Likes

Itā€™s way past time that road usage gets taxed. Many arenā€™t aware of it but quite apart from the CO2 that everyone thinks about, or the NOx emissions that make the news from quite literally killing people, thereā€™s also particulate matter that gets emitted from the tyres and brakes, especially the latter. For many people, there is absolutely no reason why they should get into a 2-tonne vehicle just for one person, when there are much better alternatives available.

Maybe a blanket VED raise isnā€™t warranted, but cities definitely need to see a lot lower usage of cars.

Youā€™re probably right but the UK driving support is comparable to gun supporting groups in the US I think. Theyā€™re a bit nuts and quite vocal shall we say.

Part of the issue, and I have some sympathy is the UK is taxed for driving a car on the road, and then taxed twice for putting fuel in it. Those levels of taxation are quite high, and yet that money is not ring fenced back into the highway maintenance budget etc. So they argue that they are getting poor service for a lot of bucks. The pot hole argument.

To me a lot of that comes back to how UK tax receipts are managed, distributed, and spent. Theres massive wastage and problems with it right along the line. Not enough is getting to the sharp end imo.

1 Like

Iā€™m going to couch this in the context of me getting around on my own two wheels, but I think Iā€™ve read before that regardless, drivers are not getting taxed enough to pay for the social cost of driving.

I donā€™t think the public in general are ready to learn how much driving truly costs.

This is it.

Itā€™s also the general principle of taxation. We tax things that we want to discourage, like Smoking and Drinking.

We desperately need to discourage driving.

2 Likes

I suspect that where the UK is coming from is that there is defacto road pricing anyway through road fuel tax. Those with a more economical car will pay less as they use less fuel per mile but everyone has a per use contribution to costs. However, electric cars pay no fuel tax at all but they still cause congestion and wear to the roads. In fact they possibly cause more wear as they are heavier.

That hits the government in two ways. Firstly there is a loss of revenue from fuel tax and then there is the lack of economic levers on limiting vehicle use. Road pricing does have the advantage that is can be varied depending on the location of the road and time of day, so a road in central London in the rush hour is priced very high whereas one in a remote rural area at night is priced much lower.

The problem in terms of selling this to the public is that it does impinge on civil liberties and it does affect privacy. Thereā€™s no real way around that. If itā€™s like any other data protection issue in the UK it will be prone to scope creep.

Stephen Bush has said that Gullis has been gathering MP support to push the chancellor to reduce fuel duty :see_no_evil:. Was only 22 mpā€™s so not sure it is anywhere near enough to make him change anything though

3 Likes
2 Likes
1 Like