Edited
I changed political beliefs to moral compass. We ally ourselves to political parties but they donât define our values. Surely you agree with that?
Can you not just answer a straight fucking question? You always do this when youâve backed yourself into a corner Iâm surprised you havenât quoted Prachett yet.
The one who plays the victim? Wasnât calling you a bigot, just answering your question about the difference between crtitcising sexuality and criticising morals.
(At least I think thatâs what you were asking. Itâs hard to tell)
FFS
I admit I did not recklessly or intentionally mislead the forum.
I was operating in good faith, and upon the advice of my senior advisers. I corrected the record at the earliest opportunity.
Can you all just let it go?
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For clarity:
As detailed above.
- Political beliefs are based on your moral compass, no, you donât tend to change that.
- As above, sexuality isnât an absolute as detailed above.
So, do me the favour, which intrinsic human desire / attitude / stance (in alignment with oneâs sexuality) however you want to phrase it, is similar or comparable to oneâs sexuality?
I have to say, this is fucking ridiculous.
No, the one who throws the first insult.
So hereâs the problem. Youâre starting from a false premise in both points.
-
Political beliefs are not solely based on a moral compass and many people change their political beliefs over time.
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Sexuality tends to be an absolute. It may well take time for people to realise what their sexuality is; sometimes decades. Sometimes itâs about the person and not what sex they are etc.
Get the starting points right and it might be easier for you to understand why you sound ridiculous.
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QED it isnât an absolute, sorry, youâre wrong here.
Correct, in line with their moral compass.
Why are we doing this???
Tends to be an absolute. Moreso than political belief.
Chances are if you ask 100000 people in their 60s if they are the same sexuality they were when they were 20 and have never changed, youâre probably going to get in the 90s percentage wise.
You can go to therapy to work on aspects of your personality/âmoral compassâ that youâd like to change. You can choose to be a more caring person, or switch political allegiances.
You canât change your sexuality through therapy.
You canât choose to change your sexuality.
FFS 
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Who in this whole discussion said you could??? Sure as shit wasnât me.
Sexuality is not a âstanceâ. Itâs a function of biology. Itâs part of your nature.
Itâs not in the slightest bit comparable with political beliefs, where you are on the left/right spectrum, how you express your moral code or anything like that.
You can be a paid up Trot at Uni and end up voting Tory at forty. There are reformed former BNP agitators who atone for their past by trying to keep young people out of the clutches of the far right. Former criminals who run schemes to help people away from offending. Clearly your values and the behaviours you display are moveable and flexible and can change under the right circumstances.
Your sexuality tends to be a bit more fixed. You canât reason your way out of being gay, and you arenât going to become gay by hanging around with gay people.
Iâm sorry to say itâs this kind of casual homophobic thinking that ends up legitimising barbaric practices like conversation therapy and electro shock treatment.
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Any wonder why people get frustrated with you?
can i try to interject as i dont think anyones even trying to understand Klopptomists point, people just want him to be wrong.
OK.
lets take his mate as an example.
his mate was having a sexual relationship with a male. it was a monogomous relationship, which would naturally make him gay in most peoples eyes.
his mate is now married, in love and in a monogomous relationshipâŚwhich would make him hetero.
lets just assume he spends the rest of his days as a happily married and faithful husband to his wife.
is he a straight man who was once gay?
is he bisexual?
or is he a gay man who is living a lie?
whats the defining point to ones sexualityâŚis it the act of sex, and by just abstaining from having sex with a male, does that mean you are not gay?
in the purest meaning of the definition then i would say yesâŚ
does someone who has had homosexual relations, who didnt like the idea of themselves being gay, and then denied themselves of the sexual experiences, are they no longer gayâŚor are they forced to identify as gay becuase people have decided its not thier choice.
thats his point, i think.
it is a choice from that angle, as you can abstain from giving into your desires, whether thats mentally healthy or not.
same thing with why we can say a murderer isnt a muderer until he murders⌠we might have a truely horendous human being who wants to do all sorts of horrible things, but until he actually performs the actâŚhes not a murderer.
so i suppose the question isâŚif a man thinks about a sexual relationship with another manâŚbut doesnt act on that thoughtâŚdoes that make him gay?
Nah, weâre trying to understand, thatâs why weâre asking questions, but when questioned he just ties himself in knots because he knows heâs talking absolute bollocks.
The questions youâre asking are semantics. If you are attracted to someone sexually of the same sex as you then you are not heterosexual. The âchoiceâ here is then how you choose how to identify that yourself. Are you gay, bi or something else. Doesnât really matter just that you arenât heterosexual*
In the example there is not enough info to know what this personâs sexuality is, but either way it makes no difference to the discussion.
*with the obvious caveat that during the hormonal party that is puberty, itâs not unusual for some people to have all kinds of different feelings that may not reflect your actual sexuality.
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ok.
so what level of attaraction without action would define a person as bi sexual?
i meanâŚdo they just have to find George Clooney attractive to be classed as having Bi sexual, or do they need to have a little rub and tugâŚ
its actually an interesting subject if we can keep calm about itâŚas it is physically possible to NOT have sex, the same way it is physically possible to remain faithful to your wifeâŚi mean, i like the idea of having sex with Beyonce, does that make me unfaithful?
when framed that wayâŚit actually CAN be a choice, albeit maybe not a mentally healthy one to make.
Itâs all just definitions though. Finding someone sexually attractive and recognizing that that person is an attractive person are not the same thing
Iâve no idea what you mean by the rest of your post though, I suspect youâre talking about something entirely different to me.