UK Politics Thread (Part 3)

Just a curious question, are employers or companies employing UK citizens required to directly contribute to their employees retirement funds in any way? Not just through paying corporate taxes but like on a monthly basis, they are required to contribute to their retirement funds on top of monthly salaries?

EDIT: Ok I googled and saw that employers and employees are required to contribute directly to their pension funds. Then what is the 18% contribution to pension by the government? Is that 18% for their government employees or mean they contribute also directly to every working citizenā€™s pension?

Unless things have changed paying super is not compulsory in the UK, at least not for certain types of contractors.

Not entirely sure, I think the 18% here is state pensions the government pays to people of state pension age.

There is a requirement for most businesses/ workers to pay into a private pension, but that is relatively new and commits to only a small sum. It also doesnt apply to everyone.

So a parent in low paid work struggling to feed their kids should pay the same percentage as someone who inherited billions?

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Turn that round. Your grandmother worked 18 hours a day for 60 years to build up a business. Your father took it over and worked even harder to turn it into a billion pound company. You inherit it. Should you pay for said motherā€™s kids?

Off to buy shares in whoever runs the lottery.

That scheme is targetting care leavers. I think there was a trial scheme in Finland that targeted general unemployed people which had mixed results. The problem with these is that they arenā€™t universal basic income because they are explicitly not universal - they are creating an advantage for a selected group of people.

Having said that, care leavers are hugely disadvantaged so itā€™s not a bad demographic to target.

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Initially yes. But the financial damage to the country of a full roll out would be way beyond Trussesq.

Do you mean targetting care leavers nationally or the entire population? If you are targetting a specific demographic to get them out of a poverty trap it will probably be self-financing over the long term.

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For me, I have no issue with someone poor unable to pay their bills paying the same tax percentage as someone who inherited billions. It would be far better than the situation now, where the billionaire pays less tax :wink:

For me the tax system is a blunt tool, its purpose should not be a lever to distribute wealth or offer incentives. There are other means to do this. Because the UK has so many exceptions, rebates and loopholes the reality is its only the wealthy that benefit most. It makes it greatly inefficient, unessisarily complex and open to abuse.

To put it into context the UK earns roughly 915bn from tax streams. Its estimated that roughly 430bn is lost to overseas tax evasion schemes. The likes of Amazon UK having a tax to turnover ratio of just 0.37%. On top of that you have the likes of BP, and Shell who for the last few years have paid no cooperation tax, due to favourable tax relief.

Imagine if they paid their fair share ?

How above private schools or universities acting as ā€œcharitiesā€. These ae run more an more as a business. Attracting international students for their fees. Creating a ecosystem where all your day to day costs go directly to the uni.

Why should certain sectors be exempt or pay less tax ? Be it the food sector or because your filing the latest James Bond movie. Why should make investments be tax exempt. Be it your own ISA or because you invest in more risky ventures.

For me its clear the UK tax system is broken. 12% might not be the right number. But not sure its a million miles away if it is applied consistently across all sectors.

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The Welsh scheme targeted care leavers, the link @Klopptimist is referring to a new pilot in England.

Yes.

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Its quite ironic that some of the richest billionaires in the UK does not pay taxes to the UK. I heard like Richard Branson and some of its companies pays almost zero tax? Not sure whether that is true but if true, thats ridiculous.

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It wouldnā€™t, actually.

Firstly, a universal basic income would replace all current government payouts - pensions, benefits, tax credits etc, so it isnā€™t billions on top of what is already paid out. Itā€™s a radical simplification of the current systems in place with would also save lots of money.

Secondly, it goes to the heart of basic economic theory. If you put money into the hands of people who actually spend it on things like food, clothing, shelter, heating etc. It is returned to the economy where it is is productive and produces more economic activity. The reason why Truss broke the country is because she expressly funnelled money towards people who donā€™t spend it, and this threat of reduced liquidity spooked the markets.

Thirdly, all the studies and trials of UBI style schemes point to a very clear finding. People essentially want to work and want to be productive. The idea that if you cover peopleā€™s basics they put their feet up and turn into lazy feckers is just wrong. People want nice things. They want nice clothes and houses and TVs. People will work.

It also frees entrepreneurial spirit. Without the need for a daily grind, there would be a surge in new business creation.

Crucially it frees people from the threat of destitution and forces employers to pay a real wage for their. You donā€™t have people working at shit holes like Amazon warehouses, having babies in the fucking toilets because they are scared of taking a sick day.

Fundamentally it comes down to what we think about people. If, like me, you think people are decent, want to work, donā€™t (on the whole) take the piss, and have the capacity to be creative, entrepreneurial and productive if we allow them to be, UBI is a great idea. If, like you, you think people are feckless, workshy, piss-takers, who would take their UBI are walk straight to the bookies, then you are likely to think itā€™s a terrible idea.

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About that Chairman Mao posterā€¦ā€¦

There are times when you absolutely mis-charechtarise and gas-light me. However on this one, youā€™ve saved me typing it our.

Thanks :+1:

The idea of any government scheme saving money is an oxymoron.

So middle income spend nothing and lower income do? Do the people who live in suberbia just eat cake?

Why have you missed out high income from that?

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If that were true, fundamentally, there would be no theft or foodbanks. My VERY close knowledge of both is that youā€™re wrong.

I WANT everybody to work and work hard, key aspect of my core beliefs. The truth is that some do. And some steal from those who do. And some do fuck all and expect the world to pay them a $.