Is it the biggest scandal for Labour so far? I’m not so sure. I’m sure there were a few gifts early on, etc.
Is it a scandal? Or is it just unprofessional laddish/office chat where comments are made to provoke a reaction/laugh and most likely does not reflect their views?
What it does do sadly, is amplify the publics level of mistrust in their local Councillors, many who do a good and are let down by a few.
Going off on a slight tangent, I highly recommend listening to a caller on 5 Live today, I think it was the Nick Campbell show.
The caller was the son of the elderly lady, who had concerns about her bin collections, the one Gwynne ‘wished dead’.
He provided context to his Mothers concerns. You could hear the emotion in his voice. Because, she was merely seen as a number, a name, a pain and not as a human being.
Maybe, councillors should be made to listen to it, to remind them that their duty is to represent their constituents.
Any Government or opposition party would be failing in their role, if they did not recognise the importance of the publics concerns with Immigration and Welfare.
It is not pandering to the right or the fascists, not everyone who has concerns about immigration have the, this is my Country, stop stealing my jobs mentality, It is of a much wider spectrum. Same with the Welfare system, not all are lazy, smoking, scratch card buying single parents.
Both are complicated issues and not just defined to the UK, it’s a worldwide issue. To ignore them would only make matters worse.
The people you speak of are nowhere close to being the real problem with the systems, and are just a distraction from successive governments’ failures to deal with that.
Much easier to claim that people are abusing the immigrations system when it was a conscious decision to reduce staffing and decisions made on asylum claims.
Much easier to demonise people on welfare instead of addressing the real systemic issues of why they are on welfare to begin with, such as the very real health and economic issues.
They know that it’s the only message that would get amplified, and yet they still choose to do it.
Just look at @Rambler’s post here: UK Politics Thread (Part 4) - #1996 by Rambler The headline is all about people “taking the mickey”, not the real structural issues that Kendall talked about in the same interview. If it was a political neophyte making that mistake, I can understand. But this is Labour veteran Liz Kendall, who has been an MP since 2010, and has been involved in politics since 1996. It’s quite clearly a systemic issue within the party.
The public are idiots. See the Brexit vote and the subsequent regret, see the recent 3 US elections.
It is convenient that it’s made out to be a worldwide issue, and yet when you look at the details, it’s not even close to being the case. Just take a peek at the Germany thread to see the difference.
Simple fact: anti-immigration sentiment is negatively correlated with the number of immigrants in a particular area, i.e. it tends to be the least diverse communities that have the strongest objections to immigration, demonising the places which see far more immigration, even though the latter are often much better places to live.
Whether you like it or not, many of the anti-immigration arguments are based on complete falsehoods and misrepresentations. And just like the Brexit vote, take out those racists, and you have a rather minority position.
Once again, abuse is a small problem relative to all the other problems, and giving it airtime just serves to amplify that as an issue for the far-right to abuse.
When you have citizens banging on illegal immigrants stealing jobs and causing crimes, while it is important to tackle illegal immigration, any government who does not look deeper is missing the point.
Singapore has very little illegal immigration but still that does stop certain segments of citizens complaining of foreigners stealing jobs and of crimes which to me is narrow minded and full of entitlement.
But To me, they are not wrong either because what most common citizens, except those xenophobic ones, want are basic, a safe environment and quality jobs available to them and government needs to work on those things. When they have that, alot of the other issues will magically subside.
Part of the problem is that illegal immigrants, i.e. those that have been smuggled into the country and are working illegally, are generally off people’s radar. You have a small number of refugees on small boats who are claiming asylum, legally, which the usual right wing grifters will bang on about, but there is barely any mention of actual people smuggling until a group of them show up dead in the back of a trailer.
As far as I can tell, the current government is dealing with both. However, they are doing a very poor job at communicating this. Also, in terms of the actual illegal immigration, I don’t think the British public give two hoots about slavery.
The public, not just in the UK, don’t give a hoot about many things. Not everyone in the US who voted for Trump hates all illegal immigrants. They just bought into the cruel reason that the lack of safety and jobs are because of illegal immigrants and wrongly led to believe that by getting rid of all illegal immigrants, you will have more jobs and security. Now if only the Democrats found ways to convince people that they have solutions to more jobs and more security, maybe they did but the messages did not get across.
People are basic. Most are. They might care about many things but in an election campaign or when it comes to crunch times, issues like climate change, gender wars etc just do not surface as top priorities. During an election campaign, all people want to hear is how you can give me better jobs, better housing, my children’s education and future and better healthcare. Do those other issues not matter? Of course they do, but they don’t have to campaign on that, you have your term to work on those policies but if you are an honest government who has solutions to more jobs, better healthcare, better affordable housing and maybe lagging behind in climate change policies, I think more people will be happy to give you a shot.
So do you define the public as everyone, or just the ones who voted differently to you.
So who should the US of voted for in the 2nd of the 3 elections?
Can you please be a bit more specific please. What details are you referring to?
Why is it convenient that it’s made out to be a Worldwide issue?
There is a difference between concerns about immigration and being anti-immigration. I have concerns about Immigration and live in Birmingham where 51% of the population define themselves as being from an Ethnic minority group. Does that mean I am RW and read the Mail?
And no shit Sherlock, you could go into any large non diverse community in the world and they would have concerns about “foreigners”. I could walk into a remote English village, with a completely white population and would be treated as if I had just landed from the Moon.
Why is it that the recent YouGov report predicts that if a snap election was called tomorrow Labour would lose 3 of its Seats to Reform UK, including Birmingham.
Simple fact(s): Reform are RW and Anti-Immigration, Birmingham has been Labour since 2012, 48% of the demographic is white. Question: How could Labours seat be under threat from Reform UK? I thought it was only the least diverse communities that held strong objections to immigration?
So can we please look/discuss peoples concerns with Immigration without making it all about Anti-immigration, Racist and pandering to the RW media.
Maybe we could discuss housing, financial support/burden, criminal gangs, people dying in the Channel, forced slavery, integration in local communities, education, the processing system/backlog, people with failed claims not being deported, etc. I mean, they are all concerns relating to Immigration but I am sure you could spin my concerns about people being forced into Slavery, working and living in squalor, as Anti-Immigration and RW. I suppose if “they” weren’t here, “they” wouldn’t have that problem….
Good post. Sometimes morales/good intentions come second to being able to feed your family, put the heating on and a habitable environment. I mean, why would you vote for parties focusing on saving the planet for “Our children”, the “Next Generation”, ahead of providing the best for your child in the present?
The problem is that the World and Politics in general is in such a bad predicament. For example such the US election was (originally) between two geriatrics where the debate was about who was the most senile or first to croak it. Whilst the UK election was on the premise of that we can’t be as bad them and the promise of Change. Not very inspiring.
I can’t see the point of that, as it doesn’t change their asylum rights or leave to remain. There are many people who have lived in the UK for years without changing their nationality.
There are plenty of idiots who vote the same way I do, or hold the same views I do, but merely by coincidence rather than because it’s necessarily something they believe in or thought through.
Aren’t you? Because despite your repeated denials, pretty much everything you say is almost basically regurgitated verbatim from the latter, if not other right-wing tabloids. I’m not the first person to point this out. In fact, pretty much every other reply to you in this thread says something to that effect.
Almost as though there are many other factors at play, such as anti-establishment sentiment, with Reform the most likely non-“establishment” (as much as you can be while being bankrolled by billionaires, with a banker at the head who’s been a politician for longer than Núñez and Konaté have been alive. Almost as though the public are being sold a scam. I don’t know which constituency you’re referring to (and I would like to see a citation for that claim), but Birmingham is also where the Greens won a seat in the recent general elections. Dissatisfaction with Labour is quite clearly already a theme there.
So what’s your point? You blamed the public as being idiots for voting Brexit and the last 3 Presidential elections - still yet to explain who they should of voted for instead of Biden.
Now you have elaborated it to people who may agree with you but strangely by coincidence, not necessarily something they believe in or thought through.
Now, I am having trouble deciding how to respond to this comment because it is so wrong on all points.
So, you saying that stupid people have agreed with your views, voted the same way even if they don’t believe in it or thought it through? So if they were intelligent had thought it through they may have voted differently???
Secondly, wow!! those stupid people who agreed with your views are so lucky. I mean, it was a 50/50 decision and those stupid people managed to guess right and agree with your unrivalled knowledge and righteousness. I mean, there is not a touch of Self Importance in your post there.
Are you stupid?
Lol, why am I not surprised that rather than engage in debate, discuss the points iv raised you take the easy way out and deflect.
Why don’t you quote the rest of my point to provide context?
Again you fail to answer directly to the point insinuated, changing your whole rhetoric of voting Reform as being RW and Anti-Immigration to now one of anti-establishment - Is that any better?
And to then use an excuse about it being bank rolled by billionaires, the public being scammed, etc. Has Labour not received multiple donations from Lord Ali and other billionaires?
Bank rolled….
Your points are so scatter gun. So, in the May local election, a Ward of Birmingham voted in a Green candidate. Sorry to be so lazy but could you please inform me of the date upon which the General Election occurred….
Maybe the people of Kings Norton South constituency were psychic and so demonstrated their dissatisfaction with Labour before Labour were voted into Government?! Give me a break.
And sorry to repeat myself, but Birmingham has been Labour since 2012, so that’s 12/13 years of a Labour Council but you state that “dissatisfaction with Labour is quite clearly already a theme there”. So 12/13 years of Tory Government, Birmingham stayed Labour. Less than a year of a Labour Government and Birmingham has already become dissatisfied. Now I know you consider the public to be stupid but this needs some explaining.
If it is intertwined with that, you are suggesting that there are two aspects in debate here. Not just the one. So do you acknowledge that people having concerns about Immigration are not all anti-immigration, even if there maybe some cross over?
Or is everything just Anti-Immigration?
What point?
If you are going to use that as a response, please state what part of my post is demonstrating your point and preferably as to how. It at least gives me the opportunity to hear your point, understand it and respond in kind.
