UK Politics Thread (Part 4)

Latest ONS bulletin is here:

Annual average regular earnings growth for the private sector was 6.2%, while for the public sector, it was 4.7%.

Looking back at the previous month, both are up, but the public sector is up more, so it will have some impact over the year.

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Yeah, it’s fair to say that the EU would look for guarantees. Possibly, the UK could lose some of the special status bonuses it enjoyed before Brexit, as a founding member.

But on the other hand, having the UK back in the EU would be an incredibly strong signal for everyone, and would offer a lot of bonuses to both sides.

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Thanks for the honest answer. And what are the benefits you see for the UK going forward?

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Maybe I’m too emotionally involved, being an Army veteran, in the recent declaration from Starmer that he’s ā€œpreparedā€ to send British troops to Ukraine.
The ramifications of that actually happening don’t bear thinking about.
Aside from that, the thoughts that must be going through the heads of thousands of servicemen and their families must be all over the place.

Of course the Russian invasion of Ukraine is an awful situation, they occupy about 10% of the country over and above Crimea (who want to be part of Russia don’t they?), and it’s 3 years into the conflict.
Chances of occupation of other countries, Poland was mentioned, are pretty slim.

What I find particularly disturbing, but not surprising really, is the absolute nonchalant reaction to British troops potentially being forced to fight on the ground in Ukraine against Russian troops.
Comparing the reactions to this, to the absolute outrage of Dominic Cummings visiting a fucking castle as an example, speak absolute volumes.

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I wonder how much of it is because of understanding and acceptance of the point that if this isn’t done, it won’t be long before another country gets invaded. Appeasement of Hitler still sticks really strongly in the public consciousness in that regard, I’m guessing.

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I think you’re wrong here. Maybe not Poland to start with, but considering it shares a ā€œsensitiveā€ border with Russia it could be too tempting for Putin, especially if Europe is fragmented and unwilling to address the threat.

With regards to the rest of your post you still dont explain why or answer the questions asked.

It is not nonchalant at all. It is the last thing anyone wants but in direct response to the question that was asked, the answer has to be yes.

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Not being under EU rule for starters, also having thousands of miles of bufferzone from russia is a great start

I think you are getting hung up on the language and theoretical nature of the question.

When Starmer is asked ā€˜are you prepared to send Uk troops to Ukraine. There are three possible answers.

  1. Yes
  2. No
  3. Not sure.

If he says 1 then people get on his back for provoking Russia/not thinking about the troops/ war mongering. If he says 2 then people have a shit fit that he is weak in the face of Russian aggression and removed a detergent from Putin. If he says 3 then he’s a weak leader who can’t be straight with the Public

Prospective British Leaders are always asked ā€˜would you be prepared to launch a nuclear missile if it was in Britains defence interests’. They always say yes (the idea being that a nuclear deterrent is only a deterrent if leaders make a show of being prepared to use them) and are met with a torrent of abuse about using an unconciable weapon that would never be justified. Until Jeremy Corbyn turned and said he wouldn’t be prepared to use a nuclear weapon, because they are unconciable weapons that can never be justified. And everyone lost their shit about it.

There is no right answer to these issues.

[quote=ā€œDane, post:2127, topic:4542, full:trueā€]
Aside from that, the thoughts that must be going through the heads of thousands of servicemen and their families must be all over the place.[/quote]

If you sign up to serve in the armed forces isn’t there an acceptance that at some point you might be deployed to fight? I would have thought that would always be a risk.

Of course they should expect and demand that our leaders deploy and treat them with great care and respect.

If it comes to it, and let’s hope to god it doesn’t, surely halting Putin’s advance into Eastern Europe is a more noble cause than destroying two Middle Eastern countries because we want the oil?

What you are comparing here is a difficult foreign policy statement in reaction to an escalating, unpredictable global crisis, and a public servant telling an egregious lie to cover up the fact that he wanted to ignore the rules he had demanded the rest of the country follow. It’s apples and oranges.

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UK being a member of NATO would have been much more relevant for that, no?
Doesn’t matter anymore though, since NATO is finished anyway.

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The frog-faced cunt’s latest drivel made me remember something I read a very long time ago…there are dozens of articles/essays making the same point…

Anyways…higher birthrates? That’s a good-un. I’m pretty sure there are a great many people out there who are loathe to bring children into this dumpster fire…

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Average wage is a totally meaningless statistic in a country with severe and rising wealth inequality

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I didn’t say you did. In your original post you said;

In your own words, your reasoning for a Diverse city such as Birmingham, where the Council has been Labour since 2012, maybe voting for Reform instead was maybe because it was an Anti Establishment vote. I was just reminding you that they are not all fascists.

How so on both comments?

@flobs can you please support your statement. I am not saying you are wrong but I would appreciate some context to your point.

@RedWhippet just wanted you to clarify what you mean. How has Brexit affected the UK’s Military capability?

Questions asked in good faith :+1:t2:

I know what my answer would be, it would be the same as in the Referendum and that would be to leave.

The issue with Brexit is that it was and still is a very divisive issue. Both sides will still try and justify their stance, remain citing lies and people not knowing what they were voting for. Leave, stating that it gives us more freedom and control over a policy making, etc.

What is evident is that the divorce process wasn’t handled very well and both sides are accountable for this.

Would rejoining the EU give way to a massive expansion of trade, I don’t think so. Thatcher and New Labour has made the UK a predominantly Service based economy. As an Export this has increased since Brexit, despite the scaremongering.
Germany and France, have since Brexit (not suggesting it is the reason for) seen Trade deficits on their exports. Germany’s car industry has taken a massive hit with the focus on Electric cars and China’s cheap alternatives.
Military deals, are there any to be made? I ask this as a genuine question.

Regarding Trump, maybe it is a wake up call. Europe, since WWII has been willing to be looked after by the US whilst it paid off its bills and rebuilt. In his first term, Trump referred to the number of Countries not meeting their commitment of 2.5% of GDP to their defence budget.
I was listening to a good piece on the radio (bbc 5 live) earlier and it basically highlighted the fractures in the EU and how on the Global stage it is not considered a superpower and I kind of understand that concept. I think the EU is going to come under some scrutiny over the next few months :+1:t2:

To be honest it is not as black and white as Yes, No, Not Sure.

  1. Yes, we would consider sending Troops to Ukraine. However, as I speak it would be the last resort and would require a great deal of cooperation with our Allies.
  2. No, as it stands we have no intention of sending Troops to the Ukraine. However, we will be reviewing this regularly with our Allies and will not rule it out.
  3. As above. But starting the sentence with ā€œNot sureā€.

Nail on the head.

Wealth inequality underpins everything.

All of the shite we are grappling with…most recently in the UK, Brexit, Trump, Farage…can be traced back to the fact that ruling elites the world over have for decades been able to funnel money upwards, irrespective of the government (often directly enabled by the government).

I often make the ā€˜off with their heads’ joke, but I honestly feel the world is a very decent chance to experience another such cataclysmic jolt.

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall it being an answer to a question, it was a pre meditated announcement. It was unnecessary and extremely reckless.

Of course, being a soldier comes with the potential to at some point be sent into conflict. Some conflicts are justified, some not.
I’d wager that Blair was advised by senior military officers against his actions, and Starmer (assuming he sought advice) is too

I firmly believe it wont happen, but both examples are wrong.
It’s one thing sending equipment an munitions to assist Ukraine, but troops on the ground could escalate this to a level beyond comprehension.
Wrong as it is, Russia is making little progress after 3 years towards Ukranian occupation, chances of it spreading to the remainder of eastern Europe are very slim.
It was sickening to see our troops deployed in both Gulf wars, the reasons were morally wrong on many levels.

Apples & oranges or not, it’s an illustration of frequent levels of outrage displayed towards he said/she said, he did/she did versus shoulder shrugging towards despicable crimes, actions or events

Was it Ā£100bn a year we’ve lost as a result?

Yeah peanuts

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@Lynch04

If you want more use internet there’s years of it.
Honestly if you were/are not aware of the UK’s position over this you should not be commenting.

A major part of such a structure was to unify equipement projects and procurements on a European scale. Something that we’re talking about today due to ā€˜recent’ events.

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So even though you now know that the Brexit referendum was massively influenced by Russian money and Russian social media farming, and you are aware that Russian money and influence has also contributed towards Trump getting elected, and you know that the resulting destabilisation of Europe has emboldened Putin to embark on his drive into Eastern Europe, you’d still vote to leave?

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