It doesn’t matter what your name is, what your religion is, what your colour, your sexuality or how you define yourself. Yes, there are crimes committed by white nationals across the country, why does that matter? Why do you (in my opinion) generalise it as only a white matter and excuse it in other cases, with the blasé of your post above.
You are as guilty as me of the accusation you are throwing at me and if I am being honest with a bit more ignorance.
I try to meet you half way, I really do. But every question or point I make you deflect and make it as if I have to explain. You call me argumentative, maybe it’s more frustration.
Do you know how hard it is for me to try and debate something on this forum, which does not follow the gold fish bowl narrative?
I am not making, raising these points to annoy people, I am not telling people they are wrong, I try very hard not to dismiss or mock people’s posts, I apologise if someone takes offence and only use a mocking tone in response.
What is the point of this thread? It obviously isn’t to discuss issues. I could elaborate, but what’s the point?
The reason why people are getting frustrated with you (and it isn’t just me) is that you seem incapable of following your own arguments, let alone other peoples.
In the context of a discussion about immigration you suggested that people are within their rights to be concerned about immigration and not have their views derided because…here are a load of stories where people with Muslim sounding names have done unpleasant things.
Unless you are making an argument immigration has brought those issues to the UK, it has absolutely fuck all to do with immigration. What it does suggest, although I appreciate you are a sample of one, is that people tend to be indifferent to various crimes and misdemeanours, until they can somehow make the issue about immigrants.
Mate, the lad in our village who runs the Mixed Use Games Area moves goalposts less than you do.
You dont debate. You say things. There is a big difference and so furthering conversation with you, other than the points I made to directly adsress your collection of comments, is as far as I have interest in going down with you.
Whoah, hang on a second. You are mixing two separate debates here.
The links to the Labour/Lib Dem/Indepent MP’s was in reference to your defence in describing the Reform party as Fascists. I highlighted and provided sources of MP’s from different parties who have views which may fall under your said Keene criteria.
People are well within their rights to have concerns about immigration. It doesn’t mean their concerns are right or wrong, or make them racist, I stand by that.
If you are going to bring up the context of a conversation we had, make sure the context is related.
There is long track record here, with many posters beyond myself, of you being less than clear in the point you are trying to make and then blaming other peoples for drawing the wrong impression from your confused, meandering posts.
I’m giving up at this point, because I don’t think you know what you are trying to say, so god knows what chance I’ve got.
Exhausting. No one knows the reasons for why the fans were banned.
I questioned the integrity of the decision. Provided evidence of premeditated bias with members of the SAG. Referred to other events that have taken place with similar levels of security issues.
Regarding the Amsterdam troubles I got told condescendingly by one member, citing the Guardian as a source that the troubles lasted 3 days and involved 6000 police members.
The thing is Mascot, I do look into things. Like your Billionaire statement, where you said it went from 20 to 200. When in truth it was 50 odd to 156.
You, also made out that reason for this increase was predominantly down to Tories sucking money out of the Government by foul means. I provided you with data relating to other countries, showing that the UK was not an anomaly. I mean Australia with a population of 27m seen more people become billionaires over the same time frame you referenced but I suppose they are all Tories??
So I find your comment about looking into things first a touch hypocritical?
I am willing to take your comments on board.
Maybe, we should all reflect on our posting style. I mean, if my post meanders or comes across as confusing it is quite easy to clarify by asking.
Xenophobic and racist bastards are present in every country, both poor and well to do countries. There will always be that segment of extreme segments who try to pin everything on immigrants or anyone that’s ‘not our kind’.
However I think there are a big group of these people who are not racists or Xenophonic. They are misled and misinformed by the extremists on the causes but their concerns and issues are real. Cost of living is high, they have no jobs, they have no housing etc. So while it’s important to educate them on immigration but it’s equally important not to brush aside the fundamental issues they have just because ‘they bought into what the extremists’ propagate. You can get these people onto the right side once the government shows they are solving the bread and butter issues. Most people just want to live in peace and stability, and when they don’t, they are vulnerable to vultures like these extremists.
I think this is very true. If you ask people what their problems are, they may say immigration, but they mean a lack of affordable housing, low paid jobs, lack of access to healthcare. There is a significant minority who simply have a problem with brown people. The level of islamophobia is evident of that, but if you get down to most people’s struggles, they are essentially economic.
I’m hoping that the new Green leader may help shift that narrative.
It is exactly the same thing. It is ultimately about extracted money but there are multiple routes through which this happens. The amount of money I can remove is a fart in the wind compared to millionaires, billionaires and massive corporation etc.
The point being made is that the proportion of wealth, be that money I spend, my mortgage, my bills, or even government spending is increasingly going somewhere else rather than back into the economy. Who owns Thames Water? Who owns my mortgage? (It isnt the bank). If I do my weekly shop at Asda, that creates jobs but how much of my bill ends up in the pockets of shareholders in the US (say)? I buy something from Amazon, same story but even worse as they offshore their revenue to avoid tax.
So back to billionaires, how much can they physically spend in a week to live a life of luxury? Its tiny in the grand scheme, leaving them lots of money to buy shares, pensions, mortgages, physical assets like property, and other investments that ultimately increase their wealth.
I think understanding the relationship between economic anxiety and the rises in nativist, xenophobic, racists thought is instructive, but I think it is a distinction without a difference when questioning whether it makes the makes the resulting racism “real racism”. As one my old Indian coworkers used to say, when the stock market has a bad run most people have to only worry about rebalancing their allocations. He has to additionally start worrying about whether he’s going to be seen as welcome by people who were previously seen as normies. He gets no comfort or protection in people arguing to him that the people who now want harm to him are not real racists
the Irony, but your welcome to your opinion.
Exhausting. No one knows the reasons for why the fans were banned.