It is a fascinating glimpse into the human psyche, imo, when cities/countries commit to spending billions to host major sporting events.
It rarely ends well, for the reasons outlined above, and at the end of the day, everyone just wants to be able to rub shoulders with the cool jocks in their letter sweaters.
Are you suggesting that BCC knew covid was coming when they were selected to host the games?
Iām not excusing them but when your athlete village is a year late because of a pandemic then its going to hurt.
I love the idea of a society thatās doing so well that it can afford to absolutely celebrate the peak of human achievement both fully able and fighting physical adversities. Watching the fastest, the highest, the furthest etc is a truely inspiring and energising experience. We all would like to emulate these people who can do the things we dream of. Weāre all football fans after all. But in these times of austerity, poverty, destitution and misery, the money thatās spent could be directed in so many better ways. Of course one could argue that the motivation to strive for gold is worth the cost but cold hard accounts have to be paid and if thatās at the expense of the majority, not so sure.
No, I am suggesting that a council already a Ā£Bn in debt decided to take on the Commonwealth games. Which from the offset meant they had to find Ā£184m.
So a Council already under financial pressure, decided to take on an event that had already been stripped from Durban for financial reasons. They were in charge of over seeing one thing, the delivery of the Athletes village and they failed.
Covid was unforeseen, I agree, but please be consistent with attacking and excusing certain areas of Government on Covid.
Irrelevant of Covid, the project completed a year late, April 2023. They still remain empty, 20 odd months later and have been sold at a loss. We are coming upto 3 years after the initial completion date.
You are in the Construction industry, if you were over seeing this project what you think???
Badly advised - cost Ā£670k
Metro line built from Dudley to Birmingham for the games in 2022, now scheduled to be completed by 2025.
Construction of a new branch line from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill was approved in March 2019, started in February 2020 and was intended to be completed for the 2022 Commonwealth Games, but has been severely delayed; it is currently scheduled to be completed at least to Dudley by 2025.
If you want to lay these failures on Covid then so be it. My original post was purely to highlight the problems the Government may face when implementing their ideas of centralising authorities/budgets. I used BCC as an example, because I have lived my whole life in Birmingham and that they are the largest Council in Europe.
I was a Site Manager working on a big clerical construction project for a Hospital in London during the Pandemic, completed it on time and under budget. I accept the project wasnāt to the same scale as the Athletes village, but it also wasnāt as important. Bags of multi finish (plaster) were as rare as Rocking Horse shit, yet we managed to source them, managed to have contractors onsite everyday.
The project was over valued from the start, the Programme was already tight and it took them just short of two years to put a shovel in the ground.
As you said, they should be able to sell the houses as originally intended but they are over valued, in an area of the City where people are not able to afford the prices or if they could would choose to spend it on a more desirable area.
The fact is, is that these proposed properties, are less in number than planned, still empty 2 years after the CWG and have come at a cost of Ā£180m (estimated) to the Council, a Council already Ā£bn?in debt.
I completely agree. As I mentioned, the City was buzzing, so many people from different back grounds/cultures embracing each other was a joy. I took my nieces to the Beach Volleyball and the atmosphere/cloud interaction was something that we will never forget.
I can completely understand the reasons why BCC took on the responsibility for hosting the Commonwealth Games.
Central Government investment of Ā£550m to improve the local infrastructure, Tourism/vistors, putting itself on the world stage, I completely get it.
However, at the same time it started off with an initial Ā£184m worth of funding (risk) it needed to source.
The Council then decided to take upon itself the responsibility to build an Athletes village, at an estimated cost of Ā£300m+ which involved a loan of Ā£292m.
Outcome;
Athletes staying elsewhere, in Student Accommodation.
Completed a year late.
Still empty as of Jan 2025.
Sold at a loss, a cost the council will still be paying off in 40 years time.
For further information, a quote from a local councillor at the timeā¦
Cllr Ian Ward, Leader of Birmingham City Council, said:
"The key physical legacy from Birmingham 2022 is a regenerated Perry Barr ā and by working closely with our Games Partners that is absolutely secure going forward.
"Work to deliver housing which is currently ongoing will continue in the months and years to come as part of the wider plan to deliver 5,000 much needed homes for people in this area of the city.
"The fact we are moving straight to legacy on the residential scheme gives the council and its partners a chance to review the longer-term plans for homes in Perry Barr, to ensure they best meet the needs of local people.
"We will engage with local communities and offer more precise details on project timescales in due course.
āPut simply, this decision on the future of residential scheme brings greater certainty for the Commonwealth Games and will help us define a vision for Perry Barr which has the wellbeing of the community at its heart, to deliver the best possible legacy from the Games.ā
Present situation, a Ghost Town.
Fair shout on taking that initial decision. Thereafter covid killed them.
You and I know full well what happens in a contract situation like this. It spirals out of control. Work stops at lock down, discussions start on acceleration to which no one can answer because no one knows how long lock down was going to last. Design changes to speed up construction get looked at, resource increases and all that. Material costs spiral, and at the end youāre forced into throwing your efforts getting Plan B ready. Meanwhile youāve got a half finished commitment with compensation events galore including one juicy one for over a years worth of time extension.
Why they stood empty afterwards Iāve no idea. I assume they were trying to find a buyer to cut their losses and yet again I point at public procurement being the absolute shit show it is in getting things done quickly. It honestly drives me nuts.
So yeah, Iām blaming covid and the utter shit show that was Boris Johnsons handling of it. No one knew what the fuck was going on. Agree that perhaps the initial decision was not a great one though. I would ask though, would those other side projects have happened without the games?
I suppose the question should be whether the original business case was valid. A decision was made to build a village with the intention that it would become housing afterwards. Was that flawed from the outset, or was it external factors that threw it off?
Build a pile of homes and flog them off doesnāt sound like a bad business plan, but were they the right sort of accommodation? Should they have been developed with social housing in mind?
Yes agreed.
How far up the food chain would that business case have to go for approval?
Iām not sure in local government. With central government, the approval ultimately lies with ministers and they will typically delegate lower spending down to departments. Itās similar to a CEO not bothering themselves with paperclip procurement.
For something this size, it should have had input from various parties, including audit. Iām just wondering if their original business case was fundamentally flawed. I donāt know enough about it to comment.
I think some cash would have to come from central government so Iām guessing it went all the way up.
I guess Iām looking at how many people had sight of that business plan, flawed or otherwise and it went ahead anyway?
Generally, the civil service will do what they are told. They will refuse if it is impossible or illegal, and push back if it is stupid. But ultimately, if it gets the sign off from the elected officials, it will go ahead, ill conceived or not.
So in your post you say āfair shout on taking that initial decisionā and then later in your post āAgree that perhaps the initial decision was not a great oneā. So what is it to be?
Blame Boris by all accounts but as you have previously mentioned, who saw Covid comingā¦.
Back to point.
BCC were the ones the decided to abandon the project due to costs. It wasnāt down to closing site down because of Lock down. It was over valued from the start, mismanaged from the start and has been mismanaged ever since.
The facts are, the project was taken on by BCC, at a time where they were already hugely in debt.
The Athletes village was a vanity decision by the Local Council. They took out a loan of Ā£290m to finance the project, they overseen the whole project and they failed.
So for arguments sake, we agree that Covid was the reason for it not being completed on time.
So why was the project delivered over a year late? The world never stopped for 12 months.
Why are the apartments still empty? You mentioned finding a buyerā¦for FFS how many years do they need? Why when there is a high demand for property and prices continue to rise it took them how many years to sell and for how much of a loss??? As I have stated, it is almost 3 years since proposed handover.
Why can you not see it for the mismanagement that it was? Is it because it was/is a Labour council?
I purposely didnāt advertise the Local Councils party, because it is actually irrelevant, what is relevant is that the Tax Payers are the ones paying for these bad decisions.
My OP was purely to highlight the issues the Government may face in implementing its plan to centralise authorities.
So to elaborate on my concerns.
BCCās history on equal rights compensation.
2012 court ordered BCC to pay Ā£750m to female workers for historic unequal pay. As of March 2012 they still had to pay out Ā£541m of this.
Jan 2015, BCC sell NEC group for Ā£307m to LDC, to help pay for these settlements.
Jan 2023, BCC states the outstanding liability for Equal pay is Ā£650m - Ā£750m.
So 11 years later and no further forward. Ā£541m - Ā£307m=234 m so how the hell is it now Ā£650-Ā£750m and costing the council est. Ā£5-Ā£14m a month in interest?
Note: LDC sold the NEC group for Ā£800m in 2018.
The Implementation of the Oracle IT system.
Following on from my previous point. One of big problem with BCC is that donāt actually know how much they owe to the Equal Pay, because in 2018 they decided to upgrade their SAP IT system to a new Oracle system - cost so far Ā£100m and still not working, estimated to cost Ā£226m and be fully functional by 2026.
Faults include making duplicate payments and assigning figures to different Tax Years, you know those important things you would not expect to happen to a Councils Financial system, especially one that has been tested before being implementedā¦.oh was it tested? did the council go ahead even though there were concerns?
So, take away the blame/making excuses game, are the above examples of Local Council mismanagement?
It is irrelevant, planning has to be approved by the Local Councilā¦so a Local Council auditing its own planning applicationā¦.
Fuck me. Iāve agreed with you on the point if that initial decision potentially being flawed. Iāve then question how far up the chain that decision goes to get the funding. Itās got fuck all to do with planning permission. Its business case and finance.
Thereafter, its covid and made more difficult by the ukās shit handling of it.
Clear enough?
As far as BCC as a well run council, i cant comment. Doesnāt sound great.
Looking back on your post, I accept I misinterpreted your initial comment and I apologise for that.
The question of how far up the chain the funding goes is irrelevant, but to repeat myself the Central Government provided Ā£594m with the BCC required to cover Ā£184m.
So, please explain to me the principles of Business case and Finance and if you donāt mind relate it to BCC approval of its own business plan.
The Council used Covid as an excuse for shelving the project. But as I have said I am willing to accept that for arguments sake.
Is Covid to blame for the over valuation of the project? Is Covid to blame for the properties still sitting empty almost 3 years after the intended completion date? Is Covid to blame for BCC selling these properties off at a loss and at a cost to the general public?
Yes or No?
And so, after all of the above, the going round in circles, you acknowledge that the running of BCC doesnāt sound great.
So please remind me what my original post alluded to.
Ok. When youāre in the public sector and want to go after a big project you need to develop a business case. This covers the why, the how, benefits, cost, sustainability, environment, risks too and so on. This goes for approval. Now for small stuff that might only need manager approval, a bit bigger it goes to the council. For the really big stuff such as this where central government is involved it could go all the way to the secretary of state. So in this case it would have been given the nod by the council and then further up.
Is your question or over valuation or overspend?
Again, as i said theres a shit process to go through. From the outside it looks really long but when your in the middle of the steps to get through it all you understand it and shake your head at it. Iāve seen tenders for projects take well over 3 years to prepare, take through tender to award and the value isnt off the scale earth shattering.
Okay, so Birmingham City Council provides a Business plan to the Central Government. Highlighting the positives, the costs, the risks, etc. to secure funding. The Government approves this funding on the assurances provided by BCC, so who is to blame on failure to deliver. The Central Government provided the funding, they are not there to manage it. A bank doesnāt manage its clientās businesses.
My point was about overvaluation. BCC, used Savills as a consultant (Ā£650k) in regards to the projected value of the properties when put on the Market. Perry Barr is not a sought after area and for a reason, no one is going to spend Ā£250-300k on an apartment. In fact, I would go as far to say that a lot of people would turn their noses up if offered free housing in the area.
From what you are saying, they built the wrong type of accommodation. Utilitarian community housing, student accommodation, or sheltered accommodation may have been a better idea. Iāve no idea what the local requirements are.
Presumably, they would have had to incorporate it into a community plan as well.
The fact that they spent a fortune on an external consultancy does seem to indicate that they sought the answer that they wanted to hear.