Yeah, it’s clear that Barca were and still are in the market for a midfielder (of certain more dynamic style). Pjanic was a weird one in the first place, probably more for balancing the books for FFP, I doubted he was ever going to play much being the same age as Busquets (who is one of the world’s best in his role, showed he’s still good last month), etc. Barca probably want to get rid. Then it’s down to only Busquets, Frenkie (who could also act as Busquets’ backup instead of Pjanic) and Pedri. For sure there’s room for someone like Saul and maybe another one (younger/local) staying like Puig or whatever. They can’t go in a new season attacking on all fronts with only 3-4 midfielders.
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Agreed.
Buuuutttt.
If they want to give him a pay rise (they can’t but with Liverpool paying…), let him grow as a player (at a high club), is it something that they might just entertain?
Probably not.
whoa hold up a sec. let’s not pretend it’s been all sunshine and rainbows.
we have had our fair share of LEMONS. most recently, Keita. and a long succession of players prior to that. Tsimikas has barely played in the past year, I fear he’s a flop as well. Karius? Oxlade? Minamino? Grujic? Shaqiri? none of those signings have laden themselves in appearances. or even achived a high number of games. £80mil in that list, I would think?
100% yes…
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This list is also influenced by the progress of the club since certain players were signed.
Karius was a cheap shot in the dark when we had poor goalkeeping options.
Minamino was a cheap shot on a player who would always make us a profit at worst.
Grujic was a cheap shot on a teenager straight from Serbia who, either way, was always going to make us a profit on his sale.
Shaqiri has been a perfectly serviceable back up and played a role in a number of key wins for the club including Barcelona, Man Utd and even West Ham away this season. He was known to be limited when we signed him and we knew he would max out as an impact sub which he has been very effectively.
Tsimikas is backup to best LB in the world. We signed him fully expecting him not to play much
Oxlade-Chamberlain was a guaranteed starter in midfield, playing incredibly well including MOTM performances in the CL later stages. He has had several injuries since then that have really affected him but don’t know how you can label this a scouting error.
Keita is probably the only one who deserves to be labelled a flop against expectations - even then the talent he has is not in doubt. Mentally does he have it? That’s an open question. When he has played we are statistically a better team and he’s a better goal threat than any of our other CMs. It was also widely reported that Keita was a player specifically pushed for by Klopp and that the scouting team signed off on him (rather than the usualy method of the scouting team pushing for players and Klopp signing off).
Of the “lemons” you mention only one two of them have failed to match expectations of the club - Chamberlain and Keita. Chamberlain was well on track to be a long term starter here before those injuries and Keita still has the talent to turn it around if he can stay fit and is mentally engaged to do so.
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I’m going to disagree there… most of those failures came down to instances that could not have been avoided:
Keita - injuries
Karius - freak head injury
Ox - injuries
Tsimikas - injuries + injuries to the rest of the squad
Grujic - his value is greater than price so no lemon there
Minamino - his value is greater than price so no lemon there either
Shaqiri might be a lemon but we can also likely recover his fee. But being given the opportunity to pick up a similar profile of player again for cheap… I think we would do it 100% of the time.
Yeah I think lemon or flop is harsh language. One thing I would point out though is its evidence that not all diamonds in the rough we pick up are going to end up an Andy Robertson or Joel Matip.
For every cheap/free signing we have made under Klopp that has worked out as well as an expensive signing we have ended up with more than double that can only be seen as successful in context as a cheap squad option/cameo option or as someone we make more on selling than we do purchasing.
What has really drove us forward is the success rate of our heavy hitter mega money signings VvD, Alisson, Fabinho all 100% amazing successes Keita a harshly labelled failure mostly on injuries. We’ve also been amazing at the next level down with Salah, Jota, Wijnaldum, Mane all being phenomenal success stories and only really Ox being a failure, and yet again mostly due to injury.
There seems to be a myth that we are fantastic because we don’t spend much money. We don’t spend much money because we don’t recruit much. Most of our most spectacular signings have cost at least a reasonable amount and some, at the time of purchase, were the most expensive of their type ever.
When you look at transfer activity too often people look at the immediate season to try and see what effect transfer activity did or didn’t have but its not really like that I don’t think. I think some have that immediate, sustained, impact bur mostly it’ll lead to a squad evolution that really bites the season after.
Our last major incomings were the season before we went and won the CL with £157m 2017/18 we spent on the likes of Salah, VvD, Ox and Robertson, we made a CL final but the year after finished 2nd and won a CL. And in 2018/19 we spent £164m on the likes of Alisson, Fabinho, Keita and Shaqiri (and strong hints we could have spent more if the Fekir deal didn’t collapse last minute). Finishing 2nd and winning the CL immediately but that was also on the investment the previous year, then the year after having that amazing title win which was cemented really early with such an impressive undefeated run and picking up such a massive points advantage over opponents there was no chance of catching us even if we did stumble.
I don’t think people can ignore how much our recruitment and targeted spending had allowed us to kick on. If we aren’t able to do it anymore we are asking Klopp to enter the boxing ring with one arm tied behind his back. Quite possibly his best arm. The only reason we stand a chance of not being humiliated in that circumstance is that Klopp is one of the best in the world and with both arms free would dominate the sport. By acting such a way we may get bye but we won’t dominate like we could.
No. If that was the case everyone would do it.
We don’t need to spend much because we are fantastic.
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No we are not… We start this season with the team which won the league minus Gini but plus Thiago and Jota. So go figure.
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The myth is that we are a side that hardly spends and buys cheap, diamonds in the rough and turns them into world class stars. That actually only happened with Robertson and Matip. We mostly built the squads progress on that investment two seasons back to back where we spent over £300m, hanging with the big boys, nearly £200m net. We bought players at world record fees for their positions and quite a few other expensive players. We went from a team that was competing in Europa and trying to finish top 4 to a team that made back to back CL finals and 90+ point seasons. Since then, for one reason or another, we have completely reigned in spending. If that’s a strategy choice it’s a bad one and holds us back. But I’m more inclined to believe that the previous spending is now all or 95% off the books, payments cleared. That means we are perfectly situated to do something similar again to refresh an aging squad. Now that should happen this summer but we may be cautious and wait till next. That’ll be a mistake in my eyes that could cost us.
It’s really not that simple, it’s not a computer game, players aren’t the same from season to season emotionally, psychologically and physically.
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It’s because we haven’t just sold someone for one of the highest fees in history, not because we’ve reigned in spending. Without the Coutinho sale we wouldn’t have had the funds to buy Virgil and Alisson.
Unless we sell Salah, we won’t be in a position to do similar again.
They will probably find a way to give him a pay rise if they really want to. They don’t need to loan him out to let him grow as a player, and keeping him and other youngsters around will help deflect some pressure from fans this season as they rebuild the squad.
We would have to offer silly money for a loan to be considered, then there is the risk of him not settling in or being able to contribute which is too much risk on our side for the move to be considered seriously.
yes, yes, all good points. I was just stretching the idea out - unnecessarily I guess.
They all look glowing in pre-season… Our boss even more so.
What wonder a good, long, break does, eh 
[quote=“AnfieldRdDreamer, post:2610, topic:114, full:true”]
The myth is that we are a side that hardly spends and buys cheap, diamonds in the rough and turns them into world class stars. That actually only happened with Robertson and Matip. [/quote]
Well, erm , no.
If you are trying to suggest that we are a team of lads we’ve got for £8m and have turned into superstars, then obviously that’s you strawmanning again. Nobody thinks that.
What we do have is a track record of spending extremely well, and taking what we do invest and making Itv’s worth to the squad much more than the initial investment.
We spent 35m on Mo Salah and turned him into a world superstar, 150m rated goal machine.
We spent about 3m on Joe Gomez and turned him into a Rolls Royce centre back who’d surely be starting for England but for Injuries.
We spent £30m on Sadio Mane, also unfancied by most, and he’s now regarded and one of the worlds finest attackers.
We spent £25m on Gini Wijnaldum, converted him into a deeper midfielder, and he ended up worth double that, and in a transfer tussle between PSG and Barca.
We brought Trent through the reserves where he’d played midfield, and he is now considered the best right back in the world, worth about £150m and is probably top five young players.
Bought Firmino for about £25m and, again, changed his position and at his peak he became possibly the best false nine in the world and absolutely intrinsic to our system.
Jumping on Thiago, and getting a absolutely brilliant midfielder for £25m. A bit outside our usual modus operandi in that he was a bit older, and finished product - but the price was still very low for a player of his quality.
Robertson is probably the most extreme example of us spotting unfancied players at knock down prices and turning them into superstars, but it would be unrealistic to expect that kind of hit all the time. We have an amazing track record of spending money well and getting the absolute most for our cash.
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We committed to around £50m per season going out from each of the two seasons of spending for 3 years roughly, so 2 years overlapping at £100m. It wasn’t just the Coutinho investment.
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…especially when we’ve spent more in terms of price. The more expensive the player we’ve bought under Klopp then usually the better success the squad has seen due to adding that player. Salah an exception as his impact has been equal to anyones.
Klopp obviously had some money to build his team. Partly from Coutinho, but he’s also had some cash beyond that too.
But where I get frustrated at the handwringing about the money we spend (or don’t spend) is that it completely misunderstands Klopp’s methods.
Klopp is not a manager who wants a huge transfer budget every season. Primarily he wants to trust and improve the players around him, and the transfer market is a point of last resort. That’s not just making do - Klopp sees team spirit and togetherness as being the absolute bedrock on which everything else is built, so doesn’t want to continually churn players. He doesn’t want to ruthlessly cut shitloads of players every year and buy a load more. He isn’t Guardiola or Mourinho or Rafa. Expecting Klopp to buy half a new team every year makes as much sense as telling Pep he needs to make do with what he’s got.
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