Raphinha will be 26 in December. He is in his prime years. But his performances isn’t very amazing.
Mane at Southampton: 75 games, 5394 mins, 25 goals, 14 assists
Raphinha at Leeds: 67 games, 5361 mins, 17 goals, 12 assists
Someone mentioned him the other day as well, can’t remember what the exact question was. I started replying, but then realised I just wasn’t sure what to write in terms of his fit in the Liverpool team. And that’s what I think when I watch him: Fundamentally, I think he’s a player who should be a good fit, but where would he play?
The way Klopp has constructed his team, has programmed my brain to always look for the spesific position the player would play. In this case I’m not sure. But is he one of those you sign if the chance is there, and figure out the exact details later?
He doesn’t quite have the pace to be the type of winger we’ve become used to. But he’s not slow either, so in some games I could see him playing the left wing position. Not really an inside-outside threat, but in a lot of home games our full back take care of the latter anyway.
As he matures though, I’m thinking he’ll mostly play central like you suggest. It’s not a big stretch to imagine him eventually playing one of the #8 positions in midfield.
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I think he might be stylistically comparable to someone like Fernandes.
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Thought he was playing better when Leeds were playing well. Perhaps he is one of those players who need that.
A Statistical Look at Mane’s Potential Replacements
To look at how we may replace Mane, I looked at every forward (centre forward, winger or attacking midfielder) and combined a set of their main statistical areas. These areas where further broken down to shooting, playmaking and dribbling with the final score being an average of the three scores.
I did not attempt to insert any kind of eye test to this analysis - other people can add their thought on that side.
General Rules
- 27 years old or younger
- Must be valued over £20m on transfermarkt (a bit arbitrary but I needed to draw the line somewhere)
- All targets are from top 5 leagues in Europe so does not include Portugal, Netherlands etc due to lack of stats available.
- I will not rule out players for being “unrealistic”, for example Mbappe is included in the data set. I think this gives a good idea of quality of the numbers.
Top 5 - Shooting
- Lautaro Martinez - Inter Milan - 2.14
- Kylian Mbappe - PSG - 2.12
- Ansu Fati - Barcelona - 2.08
- Patrick Schick - Bayer Leverkusen - 2.08
- Victor Osimhen - Napoli - 1.96
- Erling Haaland - Dortmund - 1.93
- Leroy Sane - Bayern Munich - 1.92
- Gianluca Scamacca - Sassuolo - 1.73
- Marco Asensio - Real Madrid - 1.72
- Arnaut Danjuma - Villarreal - 1.64
Liverpool players in this category - Salah (5) 2.06, Jota (11) 1.63, Diaz (12) 1.59, Firmino, (15) 1.53, Mane (17) 1.52
Top 10 - Playmaking
- Florian Wirtz - Bayer Leverkusen - 4.30
- Ousmane Dembele - Barcelona - 4.19
- Serge Gnabry - Bayern Munich - 3.98
- Dominik Szoboszlai - RB Leipzig - 3.80
- Vinicius Junior - Real Madrid - 3.64
- Raphinha - Leeds United - 3.63
- Emi Buendia - Aston Villa - 3.59
- Kingsley Coman - Bayern Munich - 3.56
- Lucas Paqueta - Lyon - 3.51
- Leroy Sane - Bayern Munich - 3.46
Liverpool Players on list - Salah (11) 3.29, Diaz (16) 2.98, Mane (29) 2.65, Firmino (30) 2.58, Jota (36) 2.45
Top 10 - Dribbling
- Ousmane Dembele - Barcelona - 3.67
- Adama Traore - Barcelona - 3.61
- Vinicius Junior - Real Madrid - 3.35
- Kylian Mbappe - PSG - 3.11
- Allan Saint-Maximin - Newcastle - 2.95
- Rafael Leao - AC Milan - 2.94
- Kingsley Coman - Bayern Munich - 2.67
- Samuel Chukwueze - Villarreal - 2.66
- Serge Gnabry - Bayern Munich - 2.55
- Jadon Sancho - Man Utd - 2.53
Liverpool players on list - Luis Diaz (11) 2.19, Salah (22) 1.85, Mane (32) 1.65, Firmino (42) 1.46, Jota (52) 1.29
Top 25 - Overall (Highlighted “realistic targets”)
- Kylian Mbappe - PSG - 3.87
2. Serge Gnabry - Bayern Munich - 3.57 - Ousmane Dembele - Barcelona - 3.54
- Vinicius Junior - Real Madrid - 3.53
- Kingsley Coman - Bayern Munich - 3.27
- Leroy Sane - Bayern Munich - 3.18
7. Florian Wirtz - Bayer Leverkusen - 3.17
8. Rafael Leao - AC Milan - 3.04
9. Christopher Nkunku - RB Leipzig - 3.01 - Ansu Fati - Barcelona - 2.90
11. Dominik Szoboszlai - RB Leipzig - 2.75
12. Moussa Diaby - Bayer Leverkusen - 2.72
13. Lucas Paqueta - Lyon - 2.70 - Raheem Sterling - Man City - 2.65
- Jamal Musiala - Bayern Munich - 2.64
- Erling Haaland - Dortmund - 2.62
- Gio Reyna - Dortmund - 2.57
18. Raphinha - Leeds United - 2.55
19. Samuel Chukwueze - Villarreal - 2.55
20. Pedro Neto - Wolves - 2.53 - Adama Traore - Barcelona - 2.52
22. Martin Terrier - Rennes - 2.50 - Federico Chiesa - Juventus - 2.50
- Marco Asensio - Real Madrid - 2.49
- Gabriel Jesus - Man City - 2.49
Liverpool players on list - Salah (5) 3.29, Diaz (12) 2.85, Firmino (15) 2.72, Mane (20) 2.62, Jota (30) 2.49
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Thanks Sweeting. Surely Dembele would have to be a realistic target too? Based purely on those stats*, going for Gnabry and/or Dembele would wise?!
- I know that is too simplistic
Gnabry yes. Dembele no. Dembele is too injury prone to take a risk on.
I just realised I forgot that Jota exists also, I’ll ad him in to the calculations.
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If Dembele could shoot straight he would be miles ahead of Mbappe in those stats… for he only featured in two of the polls not three, because he can’t hit a barn door from 5yards… which is just as well because of that sitter he missed against us when we were 3-0 down against Barcelona :0)
Yeah Dembele reminds me a bit of Timo Werner. Does everything right and then gets the yips in front of goal.
Am I the only one around here who doesn’t rate Gnabry and Nkunku? With the former, it might be the case of him being a Bayern player and consistently smashing sides that Bayern are expected to smash and the latter just didn’t impress me in games I saw.
Personally, I’d love it if fully and consistently fit Pedro Neto was playing his best stuff for Liverpool - if we’re talking just about the players from Sweeting’s list.
Raphinha is a great player to watch but I’m not sure if he’s what our team needs. His body language in recent months reminded me more of Richarlison than a player who’d fit this side.
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I think Gnabry does suffer these criticisms because he gets to smash sides in a one team league but for that matter so does Mbappe. But I do rate him pretty highly nevertheless.
Nkunku is steady and will be a good backup for us but I think there will be better players for LFC’s playing style.
But Mbappe does it at the highest level(s) too.
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Gnabry didn’t do too badly in the UCL. He hasn’t played as much as he would have liked but he hasn’t done too badly.
And I dare say Mane for Gnabry would be a fair exchange. Gnabry might not be as good as Mane is. But he’s younger and can only improve under Jurgen.
Naby and Gnabry. Has a nice ring to it. Lets G(r)ab(ry) some of that.
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Gnabry wants silly wages too.
Good player, but we won’t bring him in as one of our top earners.
Too many question marks surrounding the club at the moment. Edwards is leaving, Salah and Mane are not even close to signing new contracts and in my opinion Sadio won’t be a Liverpool player after the summer transfer window closes.
But there are other important matters the club must solve:
Milner’s new contract, Klopp wants him, the player wants to stay and hopefully he will stay.
AOC contract also expires next summer. It will be good for the club to sell him earlier, so Klopp will have more transfer funds at his disposal and Ox’s wages are much bigger than his contribution to the club.
Keita - another one whose contract expires next summer. We paid 50+ mln. pounds for Naby and I doubt the owners will gladly see him leaving on a free transfer next summer. I really don’t know if the club is trying to sign a new contract with Naby or they are just waiting for the right offer.
Firmino, well his contract also expires next summer and Bobby is clearly in a decline. 2017/18 and 2018/19 were his best PL seasons /15 goals and 7 assists and 12 goals and 6 assists/. Then he slowly became less productive, especially for a forward and more injury prone. Still 2019/20 and 2020/21 were decent seasons /with 9 goals and 8 assists, and 9 goals and 7 assists/, but last season was his worst for LFC - injuries and only 5 goals and 4 assists in the PL.
Origi left, Minamino will probably follow in his footsteps and Mane will also get his wish and sign for Bayern. We will need quality and depth in attack and it is not a coincidence that signing a top attacking player like Diaz only improved Klopp’s options and the quality in attack let the mkanager rotate heavily and kept our players fit for the reminder of the season /Salah was the only exception, but he played too much for Egypt/.
One attacker will be the minimum requirement, if Minamio and Mane are sold. Raphina is a good option. Last night I had a crazy idea, but the more I thought about it, the better it looked from a professional and football point of view. Raheem Sterling has only one year left of his City’s contract, he is not a starter any more for Guardiola and he is only 27 years old. His stats are very close to Mane’s, but he is 3 years younger and if such a transfer is possible /50-60 mln. pounds the same amount Leeds are asking for Raphina/, I think it will be good for us. Nkunku, Antony, Osimhen are also interesting options
In midfield I hope that the club will add 2 new players. Hendo will soon be 32 years old /in less than 2 weeks/. Thiago is injury prone and has managed to start just 37 matches from 76 possible in the PL. He is 31 years old and is currently injured again… Fabinho is 28 years old, but every season he misses huge chunk of matches because of injuries /Fab started only 76 matches from possible 114 in the PL in the last 3 seasons/.
Jones, Elliott and Carvalho are future prospects, but Harvey and Fabio are much more offensively minded players. Elliott will hopefully be an upgrae of AOC, while Carvalho will be a very good option /for number 10/, if Klopp wants to play 4-2-3-1 or on the left side of the attack, but making the step from Fulham to Liverpool is huge and he will need time and patience. Jones in my opinion is the player who is really close to be a starter, but his frequent injuries are becoming a big problem, still he could be a very good option to replace Keita, if the Guinean is sold or leaves on a free transfer.
We need real competition for Hendo, Fab and Thiago. Looks like Tchouameni will sign for Real Madrid. Bissouma, Barella /if true that Inter have serious financial problems/, Merino, Aouar are realistic options. Rice and Bellingham are the perfect choices, but I am afraid we won’t be able to sign them.
In defence - everything is fine. Signing Ramsay will be nice, he will have the time to learn under Klopp’s guidance and hopefully will improve like Tsimikas. Selling Davies, Philips, N. Williams will bring money and won’t harm the squad depth. Same is valid for our goalies - Alisson, Kelleher, Adrian. Karius is leaving and his departure will free spacefor the wage bill.
So 2 midfielders and 2 attackers is my preference. And I guess that Ramsay from Aberdeen will soon be announced.
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You were fine until you mentioned Sterling.
No way I would want him back.
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Thing is, Mbappe does the business in Champions League and for France, I’m not sure that Gnabry is anywhere near him when it comes to performing in big matches. Off the top of my head, he’s already scored against us, against Real Madrid, Man United, Man City, Barcelona… Maybe it’s not the best indicator of a big game performer (and I tend to use it often to justify just how good Kuyt was, haha) but I’d certainly love to have a player who routinely scores against such opposition.
It’s not as crazy as you think but there’s too much bad blood here, I think, and his wage demands would probably be higher than what Van Dijk and Alisson are getting here. Even if there wasn’t, I’m too spoiled by watching Mane and Salah dribbling, weaving, speeding their way through defences and scoring all kinds of goals - and it’s easy to get spoiled by them after not having a proper and consistently good winger since McManaman. Sterling could be described as one-dimensional in comparison to them, which might be unfair as he’s a really good player. Under Klopp, he might have been much more than a speed and tap-in merchant. If he knows what’s good for him, he’ll remain at Man City and continue doing what he does best.
To be honest, I still can’t look past Neto in terms of his playing style and quality. That said, he has only signed a new contract and it’s still unclear whether he’ll properly recover from his knee injury (I think it was an ACL) but I loved his mixture of talent, on-the-pitch arrogance and hard work. That said, he’s one to watch for the future, I think Klopp’s staff will target someone else in the next few months.
@Sweeting, out of interest, if you have time, could you make a list of ten to fifteen players who are regarded mostly as centre forwards?
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