Completely disagree with this his speed is fine his conditioning and athleticism have got worse but can be improved.
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Tarkowski wins the most aerial duels in the division, doesn’t he? Last season?
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Being good in the air is probably more important for Leverkusen than Liverpool. Besides, Tapsoba is 6’5 and only 21 years old, I don’t think there’s much to worry about with his aerial ability. Certainly hasn’t looked a problem in the games I’ve watched whatever the stats say.
Aerial ability is important for any defender but the higher our line goes the less important it becomes. There’s a good reason the likes of Mascherano and Alaba have transferred well to being centre backs at Barca and Bayern, and Gomez has been fine here until the other parts of his game started eluding him. On the flipside, Otamendi was City’s worst centre back by a distance despite being the best in the air and Lovren had plenty of struggles here too.
Of course you still want a player that is good aerially, but not at the expense of other attributes which is what you’re sacrificing if going for a player like Tah. He is very slow on the turn, slow off the mark and poor when dragged out wide, has mediocre positioning in the box and has questionable decision making.
A player like Upamecano would absolutely be the better choice even if he is slightly overhyped and not as good aerially because he’s better everywhere else. In fact, I’d take 4 or 5 of Leipzig’s centre backs over Tah as well. Konate, Klostermann and Halstenberg are better players than he is.
Edit: And as an addition to the aerial debate, how many goals have we conceded this season due to being beaten in the air? I can think of the Everton game as being one example of that weakness being exploited. I can think of plenty more due to bad decision making or trouble defending 1v1.
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You can’t completely disagree with something by caveating it.
Tah’s speed is fine with some conditioning work is not the same as being able to beat Upamecano in a foot race. Also, you could equally say Upamecano’s aerial ability is fine but on that attribute fine doesn’t seem to be adequate.
Of the two, Upamecano is undeniably the quicker.
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Whilst Calvert Lewin won the header, that wasn’t down to poor aerial ability from our defenders. You simply can’t compete with a striker who has a run on you for a cross like that. Van Dijk isn’t losing that header because he isn’t letting Calvert Lewin make that run in the first place.
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Didn’t needed this to know it because i knew it from watching the games.
Our CB are doing ok.
But did anyone ever see Firmino, Salah, Mané, Gini, Jota, Keita, Milner or Hendo win an aerial duel in midfield or attacking midfield areas?
We do a lot long balls, high clearances but those players are relatively short (compared to our opponents defenders).
This statistic is shit for what you are trying to prove.
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Don’t know. I go on success rates not numbers. Numbers can be affected by playing style of the teams involved but success rate should show whether the person is actually good at it or not.
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Speed and athleticism/mobility are not the same things.
Tah is fast. I’ve seen him overhaul quick attackers in foot races. His problems are with his mobility. That’s something that can be worked on in training. Upamecano has worse success rates in the air than Gomez. I’m not sure why that wouldn’t be considerd a disqualifying factor for people when targets are discussed as defending from aerial attacks has become such an essential part of what our defence needs to do.
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We were 3rd best in the league at winning aerial duels last season with those midfielders and attackers though. The difference is losing VvD and teams putting more high balls in.
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Nat Phillips is an absolute beast in the air, pitty his all around game i.e. playing the high line, 1 v 1 defending, passing under pressure isn’t up there… It’s why he is a stop gap for the team.
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But now that he is back at the club and under the direct tutelage of Team Klopp, who’s to say that his all-round game won’t come on in leaps and bounds?
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Of defenders to have won 20 or more aerial duels only Maguire (89.2%), Zouma (85.2%) and Bednarek (77.8%) have a better win % than Tarkowski (77.1%) this season.
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Nat Phillips, incidentally, has won 5 out of 9 aerial duels (55.6%), only marginally better than Gomez (53.8%).
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The debate between Tah and Upamecano is really interesting, but Tah pisses all over Upamecano in one extremely important metric - he might be available in January. 
Aside from that, there is no doubt that Tah is struggling at Leverkusen, but there could be a variety of reasons for this. Sometimes players just need a change of scenery. He is a player that at one time was thought to be on a fast track to being elite, and Liverpool were rumoured you be interested in.
It’s also really important to think about what we already have. We’ve got the best defender in the fucking world, and one of the best young defenders in world.They should be back next year.
We’ve also got a couple of young defenders who look like they could be special. The twinkle in Klopp’s eye whenever he talks about Billy Koumetio suggests he thinks kid might be something to really get excited about.
So I don’t think the club will be in any rush to do a big signing like Upamecano in January. A short loan might be just the ticket while we wait for Virgil and Joe, and get a proper look at Williams and Koumetio. If we need to go big in the summer, we can, but I doubt anyone will be panic buying in January.
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You been on the kool aid again? 
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So he’s not mobile but is fast. He isn’t as fast as Upamecano which was my original point. You’ve now said he’s not that mobile so he’s both slower and less mobile.
As for Upamecano’s aerial ability, I guess it depends where you get your stats as this comparison has him firmly between Gomez and van Dijk.
All defences face some degree of aerial attack. Having some ability in that area is definitely needed. But to play the high line we do, we need at least one centre back with exceptional pace and mobility.
If you can train Tah to be more mobile, why can’t you train Upamecano to be better in the air than he already is? And if both improved in those areas, Upamecano beats Tah hands down in every other way. You’re advocating sacrificing in a lot more areas because Tah is better in just one, and one where Upamaecano isn’t nearly as bad as you’re making out.
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It’s all true, but I don’t think we’ll be able to get Upamecano in January without a ridiculous fee.
The suggestion, for me anyway, is not that we choose Tah over Upamecano. It’s that we use Tah to give us a bit of breathing space to make a proper decision come summer.
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That is true with Tah, he’s more likely to be available but he still won’t be cheap.
We’ve tended not to be reactionary with transfers. If it’s not THE player we want, we tend to make do. Now the current issues may mean we can’t risk making do but if that’s the case I doubt it’d be someone that requires the level of investment that would be needed for Tah.
He’s not a short term stop gap but he’d also very much be fourth in the pecking order when everyone is fit. Upamecano would probably be in the team alongside VvD if we secured him, allowing us to phase out Matip if his injuries persist.
I guess it depends on whether the focus is just on getting through this season or for the next two to three years plus
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Why would Tah be available on the cheap but not Upamecano? Apart from the obvious difference in quality.
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He’s a bit crap, out of form and probably available to buy.
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