And also rely on buying in the same market. If anything, after the oil money backed sides, we should be one of the most stable financially. The suggestion for number 10 I’d look at would actually be Eriksen who seems available and unwanted right now. His availability and price should be very realistic. You seem obsessed that we won’t get much for our players (nothing new there with you though) but refuse to acknowledge how it’ll be the same with whoever we buy. Transfer business will happen despite the market.
1 Like
What is a “proper number 10”?
Jurgen Klopp’s been here for more than 5 years, do we know his criteria for that position?
Not even Rodgers played Coutinho in the #10, it was more as the LCM #8 in a midfield 3, diamond or inside left in the 3 at the back system.
1 Like
I don’t think it will.
I think the nature of a depressed market is that clubs will mostly look to consolidate what they have. Especially if clubs think that the market is going to recover to what it was pre-covid levels.
There might be some bargains to be had from distressed clubs, like the French League, but no club is going to sell a £50m player for £25m if they can wait a year and get full whack.
Our owners are certainly not going to sanction selling Mo for 75m if they think he’s worth £150m when the market recovers.
Then you look at our deadwood - the players most likely to be open to being moved on.
Shaqiri. Injury prone.
Origi. Fallen of a cliff badly
Ox. injury prone.
Matip. Injury prone
Keita. Injury prone.
No-one is spending scarce money on injury prone players. I’d be fuming in Liverpool bought any lads with their records from other clubs.
I see the most likely player to generate a bit of cash is Taki. But I have a feeling the loan is because this is just not his season, and Klopp is not done with him yet.
I just don’t see much happening. We need to get a permanent deal sorted for a Centre Back. I think Elliot will be expected to make a contribution. Beyond that I think the club will be happy to back these lads to go again and with a proper pre-season and supporters back in stadiums be the Liverpool we’ve been used to.
3 Likes
For me the number 10 is more about the attack than the midfield, released of many of the duties and responsibilities of the midfield, on the pitch to playmake/create and chip in with goals.
I’d argue that Coutinho did fulfill the role of a number 10 under Klopp just not in the position on the pitch you expect them to play. Kagawa and Goetze were used in Number 10 roles by Klopp at Dortmund too. Its not a role he’s against using. We nearly bought a few during his time here too only to struggle to get the deals over the line.
Instead we’ve effectively used the press as our “playmaker” where a ten would be. Harrowing teams into turning over the ball and losing position in dangerous places and taking advantage of mistakes. That still worked against RB in the CL and utilises the false 9 to do a lot of work and Wijnaldum as a soaking up of play in the middle.
The problem I see is, unlike in Europe mostly, Prem sides have negated this. Allow us more possession, move the ball forward quickly skipping the press in front of their back 4, let Firmino and Wijnaldum have the ball, concentrate on what the others do with it, force Firmino back further down the pitch from false 9 to number 10 kind of traditional area as he doesn’t have the Coutinho/Gerrard style trickery/creativity of a number 10 so becomes less effective.
I think some are focusing too much on the injuries and thinking all will be right again when players are back. It’ll certainly have an effect and being more solid at the back, having that playing foundation back there, will definitely help us win and draw games we are currently losing.
But in reality things had started to come unstuck even before the first lockdown. We got through a lot of games last year by fighting tooth and nail by the skin of our teeth. Towards the end of last season we were stale and getting through by being stubborn at the back and individual brilliance in attack.
The “press as a playmaker” isn’t working anymore and had start to fade before we’d tied up the title and the injury issues just expose it more now, or possibly hide it as a problem under a more obvious one.
2 Likes
The proper #10’s been dead in football for a while now, a few exceptions at certain playing sides aside.
We either realize that (if we didn’t by now) or change our principles drastically. This season is not an indicator that we have to change everything about our style.
In that case, we’d have to change Klopp.
2 Likes
As I said it doesn’t have to even be in the area people think of for a 10. Coutinho was fulfilling all the jobs of a number 10 whether it was as a tucked in left winger or as an 8 with less responsibility. That was under Klopp. At Dortmund he always used players like that too. I’m not sure it’s out of the game at all actually. United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester and to some extent Spurs all use players who fill those roles although not always playing directly behind the front man where the number 10 traditionally plays.
1 Like
Coutinho played either inside left in a 4-2-3-1 (first season, second season in our 4-3-3) or half of the time in his last half a season as a offensive LCM (the other half as the left attacker), which was already at the time when Firmino pretty much took over that high central zone. There are some principles and some bottom line qualities and levels Klopp won’t negotiate. We should know this by now, having him 5+ years (a lot in today’s game) in charge. If we want something different, we are talking about changing our manager. And I don’t think the time has come for that. Certain evolution is possible and actually happened with us. But him suddenly buying and playing what most fans still imagine is a “proper number 10” is not going to happen. We can share personal wishes though, that we can do.
1 Like
No it’s really not!
Klopp had Coutinho play like a number 10 wherever he was positioned on the pitch. He’d made moves for Brandt, Draxler, Lemar and Fekir who all would have played much more like tens if he’d bought any of them, yet again, regardless of where they ended up positioned on the pitch. He also used Kagawa and Goetze for significant amounts of time, yet again playing in the way of a ten, for large periods of his time at Dortmund. Those are just a few examples.
Klopp can play with a 10. He might position them out to be tucked in on a wing, central in the 3 in 4231, tip of the diamond as he has with Shaqiri a few times recently or as one of the 3 centre mids with less defensive responsibility than the other two.
Personally my choice of what I’d prefer to see and suits 75% of our side is a diamond. I think in recent games there’s been flashes when we’ve set up like that that appeal to me. Salah and Jota would benefit from being closer to goal, possibly Mane. The ability to switch from 2 CBs and a DM with 2 CMs in front to 3 CBs with 2 CMs depending on opposition/how the game goes appeals to me. Can make us more solid at the back especially when injured players come back.
But that might not be how Klopp sets it up but someone to perform that role I think needs to come in.
2 Likes
A lot of those players are not “proper number 10’s” or are much more responsible than the type of player we’re calling out for.
Maybe your definition of a proper number 10 is too limited? Definitely appears to be more limited than mine.
It’s not, I don’t give that much importance to systems and positions. But player habits and manager habits, yes. Balance in the team led by a manager who’s principle is “pressing is the best playmaker” especially. That doesn’t mean we can’t strive to add more technical players. We did and we improved our positional game. It’s a full circle, pressing well, keeping the ball well, defending from the front and attacking from the back. I’m not in the mood for an Isco type of player. For an improved Thiago, Jota getting more time and potentially having a proper striker in the roster, yes. Pretty sure Klopp isn’t either.
Can still have that in our arsenal but the opposition needs the ball for that to work. At one point they flashed the possession in the 2nd half up and we had 83% possession, how do we press Everton when not only do they almost never have the ball but when they do its very rare that it’s in the area that type of pressure creates “playmaking” opportunities.
Just for context by the way (and I’m not saying we have to do something just because someone else does it);
Milan Derby has Calhanoglu and Eriksen playing as creative forces.
Spurs fielded Lamella (OK poor player but still) and West Ham Lingaard.
Villa are going to field Barkly even though no Grealish, Leicester Maddison.
Later City will probably field De Bruyne, Arsenal Oedergaard and United Fernandes.
I think there are plenty of teams that field these type of players.
1 Like
Isn’t that the exact role Thiago is meant to be fulfilling.
I will still be hoping for three new players (Elliott notwithstanding). We often forget the power of football agents, they will be looking for better deals for players they represent because that means more money for them. Football is driven by money, transfers are an essential part of it, unfortunately… The likes of Origi and Shaqiri won’t be getting new contracts, neither will Grujić and Wilson. They won’t let them stagnate for another season, I dearly hope that these four will be moved on this summer. AOC maybe comes into this discussion as well, we’ll see.
For all of Guardiola’s coaching, it’s the likes of Dias and Torres who pushed their team forward. I don’t expect Liverpool to spend anywhere near what Man City usually spend but I think that FSG know that this side needs two or three better players, new faces who will push the current set of players forward. Alcantara initially looked like a world class player he was, Jota was outstanding… Two or three right players to replace the likes of AOC, Origi and Shaqiri, hopefully some better luck on the injury front, hopefully an uninterrupted pre-season… And see where we are then.
3 Likes
No. Thiago is a deeper player, think a Mascherano/Alonso hybrid. He can play as a 6 or as an 8 but probably best in a double pivot as one of 2 CMs. My ideal diamond midfield would be Fabinho as the DM/3rd CB, Henderson and Thiago as the double pivot CM 2 and a 10 with creative ability who can chip in the occasional goal. In front of them would be two roaming, versatile forwards.
We had to get lads on HP after a season where barely a quarter of it was affected by Covid. After a full season of empty stadiums?
Unfortunately our saleable lads are all extremely injury prone, and I can’t see them being touched with a barge pole.
I appreciate we can always do with a couple of new faces every year, but I just can’t see it right now.
2 Likes
If Bobby is a false #9 then Thiago is a false #6 or #8.
He is not Box2Box. Not running enough, not physical enough to be a #8.
Not strong enough. Defensively not good enough to be a #6.
With his qualities he is the closest thing to a #10 since Coutinho.
We don’t need (another) #10.
Thiago has been our top tackler and interceptor in the games he’s played.
Unfortunately statistics don’t win us games at the moment.
‘Top tackler’ and ‘top interceptor’ 
1 Like