For the record, I think Klopp has to be a touch ruthless this summer. He is incredibly loyal to his players, and it has paid off for us and him, but he needs to purchase a replacement for Firmino and unearth another CB. Big summer for Edwards and Klopp. They are playing with house money, but this summer we will want to see them do it again. It may see us continue to fight for league titles or continue to fight for 4th, depending on how we do.
3 Likes
Fixed! 
1 Like
You don’t seem to be able to differentiate between performance and result. Yes you can still win if you’re not 100% perfect especially when motivation is high and you’re on an insane run of form and everyone is scared of you. But if you ignore the problems eventually they’ll start effecting results. Injuries are a massive factor in this season, but not the only one. To ignore other issues and just wait for people to come back from injury hoping we achieve what we did in the past isn’t the smartest of moves.
1 Like
How is saying Klopp needs to be ruthless this summer = just wait for people to come back from injuries? Don’t think I referenced injuries once.
Sorry you posted the ruthless thing as I was typing. Was talking about last spring when we were still winning but seemed to be limping over the line in majority of matches and it went on to become a more general post.
The audacity to say something like this while you’re posting scoring breakdowns for Mané like they mean anything.
1 Like
The player I said I’d keep if I could and has still been a good player this season despite not scoring? It was only ever a discussion over why I’d pick Mane over Salah if one of them needs to be sacrificed.
On another note, anyone watched Suarez this season? Has he got another season in those legs? He’d certainly add a bit of bite to that front line.
9 Likes
IMO we really started to see signs of a drop off after returning from the winter break in 2020. We beat Norwich away 1-0 thanks to a brilliant bit of play by Mane but the performance was poor against a poor side. We beat West Ham 3-2 thanks to a world class display by Trent and one of Fabianski’s worst ever games but it was another poor performance overall. Three abysmal games against Watford, Chelsea and Atletico, but an amazing performance at home vs Atletico too. A mixed bag.
I wouldn’t say we were struggling but we also clearly weren’t the same team that we were in the previous 18 months or so when the standard was ridiculously high. After the lockdown lifted the same happened to be true, some great performances (Palace, Chelsea) mixed in with some so-so ones and some poor ones.
Certain things need freshening up. We need new faces at centre back and to hope for some more luck next year. Maybe another midfielder if Gini goes, and definitely another forward or two to take pressure off the front line. Personally I’d like to see either two wide players who can offer a threat on the outside (Raphinha, Neto, Sarr types) or one of those plus a centre forward.
I think the shouts to get rid of Mane are premature. He’s had 3-4 months of rubbish form, yes, but he was arguably our best forward since the turn of 2019 (no need to argue with this ARD). Firmino is a slightly different story though, he was never as good as Mane or Salah and his poor form has been going on for longer. If a good offer was there, I think we’d be silly not to take it.
This summer was always mooted as one that FSG were targeting to be a ‘transitional’ year, albeit that was before Covid. I still don’t think we need a total revolution but 4 or 5 really promising players in their early to mid twenties could liven this squad up, as well as the return of certain players from injury.
11 Likes
I think thats very important… There is a huge chance the likes of Bobby, Mane, Salah, Gini even, are mentally burnt out… New challenges are needed, but that doesn’t actually mean in another team… It can be from internal i.e. a new young player full of the zest of life challenging their spot, pushing them on to improve or be dropped.
1 Like
Ain’t that the tooth.
8 Likes
That depends on the definition of another season. He can squeeze out another 15-20 games, at best.
@ILLOK I’m a bit on the fence if the 2020 winter was the beginning of the slide or just a rough patch. I think our slide really started after resumption after COVID break, we really struggled to regain the momentum and has been hit & miss ever since.
2 Likes
He’s right though. We had a tough run with going to the world club competition and coming back to face Leicester and then Spurs and Utd in the January. I think we were looking off in a couple of the games leading up to the break in early Feb, Wolves and/or West ham and that continued after the winter break. We may have got results but we looked spent after that great win against Utd when we all believed we were gonna win the league.
1 Like
Yes. You did.
See.
I think there are a variety of reasons - klopp sides have always been questioned over whether they can remain strong in the last part of the season because they work so hard for the first two thirds of it. We’ve also seen us be poor after a break most seasons, perhaps because of a loss of rhythm. Last season put a lot of demand on the players, as has this season.
1 Like
After the Utd win(in the lead up to the winter break) , we played 12 games till covid, winning 7,drawing 1 and losing 4, scoring 19 and conceding 15.
Our previous 12 games we won 11 and the kids lost 1 to villa in the cup,scoring 21 and conceding 6(5 against villa).
We started to struggle in the lead up to the winter break. Instead of dominating games, we just did enough. That’s all that’s been said.
3 Likes
I’m happy to get the title wrapped up in the first two thirds of the season, and then go off the boil a bit. They can do that every year if they like!
Going back to last year’s CL defeat to Atletico, it’s a little from column A and some from column B. Of course the strikers were blunt. And yes, of course Adrian had a mad one. Don’t want either of those things to happen. If both were as they should have been, we sail past Atletico Madrid. If only one of the two was as it should have been, we probably win in a nip and tuck encounter. But since two key components of the side dropped a bollock, we got knocked out.
As for who would I buy?
A defender, a midfielder, and a striker who will all be in the first team reckoning. Hopefully a couple more good signings at a bargain price, perhaps due to clubs having to sell to stay afloat?
It’s not time for wholesale change, but it is time for some astute signings in all areas of the pitch. The team this season has been below par and of course we have had horrible luck with injuries. They aren’t all of a sudden no hopers, but it does need some attention, and yes, the years are creeping up on a few of them.
The nature of one or two deals might depend on whether or not a big player leaves.
Anyway, it needs work and I’m confident we are on it, behind the scenes. The recent investment will have given us clarity as to what we are able to spend, so I’m sure Edwards and co are making enquiries all over Europe, and as others are saying, there might be some good value to be had in France.
4 Likes
The trouble with this is that it isn’t a neat argument that you can easily solve. There is so much going on, that it’s near impossible to isolate a single issue and solve it.
You say that this started in January, with some ropey performances which we came through with maximum points.
Right. So how is this different to every January under Klopp’s in which the team has a bit of a wobble post Christmas?
Then where do we factor in the inevitable letting their foot of the gas at finding themselves 25 points ahead of the pack. Or the drop off from the effort required to to build up that lead.
Or maybe it’s the accumulation of 2-3 years of going at an incredible pace. The same thing that happened to City, and they have bounced back from with more or less the same players.
How much is the enforced three month break a factor? How much does playing without fans account for a dip in levels? How much does the mother of all injury crises account for our struggles?
I don’t think it’s as simple as you suggest, and I think the really foolish thing to do would be to make snap judgements based on a weird and freaky run of events (having the league basically won at Christmas 2019, and then a global pandemic).
There are players in the City team that fans would have happily binned off after last year, and look at them now.
We know, with some certainty where the weak spots in the squad are. We can see that some of the fringe performers are lads the club would happily move on and replace, but when the conversation turns to players like Firmino, Mane, Gini (who is surely leaving, but there are some posters seemingly happy to see him go), being pushed out, we need to be careful.
Thankfully the club take a much more robust approach to these kind of decisions than we do.
For my part, it has been such a weird season, with so much going on, that I’m not happy to judge any players on the bizarre, sterile conditions this football is played in, or the effects of that injury crisis on form, fitness, and performance.
Origi, Phillips, Davies, Minamino and Shaqiri are the definite departures (as long as we can find buyers), Oxlade-Chamberlain, Keita and Matip might also be tempters if a good offer comes up.
I don’t think we will or should entertain offers for any of our other first team players.
I then think we’ll take up our option on Kabak (who has really impressed me) and add another centre back. Using Gomez and Milner as cover at right back would free up Neco to go on loan to the Championship, which he looks like he might need.
That might leave us overstocked at Centre back, but I think we’ll need to be until we know that Gomez and Van Dijk are OK.
I think we will then add a Centre Midfielder to replace Gini. There is an argument that Gini is effectively replaced by Jones and Thiago, but Hendo is no stranger to picking up injuries. We can’t rely on Keita coming good and Milner has another year in the tank.
I’m in two minds whether we need an attacker, but the smart thing to do, money permitting, might be to get in Salah’s replacement now, as he will want to leave at some point, if not this summer probably the next one.
I’d be looking at Caleta-Carr or Botman as the additional centre back, Camavinga or Bissouma in midfield, and Sancho in attack, if that’s not too much of a pipe dream.
2 Likes
So for all the post after post of rubbishing my posts and literally laughing at me in one you actually come up with almost identical suggestions. Pretty much only me being willing to consider letting Mane go if it meant landing Mbappe and if we can’t do that keeping Mane but bringing in Andre Silva. Oh I was expecting Firmino to leave too. They’re literally the only differences between our views on what we should/would do.