Yes, but it’s not possible to win the ball as high as possible enough times to prevent the need of defending mid-pitch and deeper at times. Regardless of what you have up top attacking and pressing. Intent is one thing, doing it all the time or even most times is not possible.
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People are discussing the formation and how to press from the formation, when for me our issue is pressing with 4 men and Arne always wanting plus 1 at the back, whilst using a 4 man front press.
This leaves space in midfield which teams are taking advantage of by a FB or forward creating an overload in midfield and easily playing through the press.
Under Jurgen we mainly played with a 3 man press and had a great compactness around the ball, we did occasionally have a midfielder ‘jump’ to press but was situational and when we had forced the opposition back.
I don’t see traps set or a philosophy in our press in what are we trying to achieve, where are we forcing play and who are we allowing the ball and then pressing.
Our full backs used to press high with our CB’s covering and the opposite full back shifting across, but because of the ‘plus 1’ that Arne wants at the back our full backs struggle to assist the press and another reason it fail.
This is where Arne is failing he hasn’t adapted to how the opposition break the press.
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We’re all just passing the time of day, but I think everything is possible if you execute it well. All systems have upsides and downsides. In a 4231 it has a lot of attacking firepower, and it might not be as solid defensively as some other systems. That would be an intentional choice you would make, and an attacking manager like Slot might choose to go for it.
Obviously in any system you would try to keep the upside whilst mitigating the downside, so in a 4231 you would want defending to start from the front, all four of them working, and in addition the players behind would need to keep a compact formation so you don’t get overrun.
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Our defending mid pitch is an issue due to our wide forwards not doing the required work which drags our midfielders all over.
Defensively we look the best in a low block if our widemen work back defensively.
Some things are not possible.
It’s not so much the system, but the players within the system. And even if we had Salah, Mane, Firmino and then choose whoever you want of the current crop as the 4th one for that 4-2-3-1, we cannot always win the ball high up.
I don’t see enough balance in the shouts to play Salah and Ekitike on the sides with Isak up top, I don’t see enough balance in that combination with Semenyo and Ekitike and Wirtz behind Isak either. Both defending and attacking, if we take it that Szobo is currently undroppable.
There is no big secret unlocked if we go and sign Semenyo. Keeping Diaz or buying Semenyo as a hope that he’s more aggressive like Diaz compared to a nicey-nicey Gakpo is not enough to revive our pressing.
If you had Diaz and Sadio as wide men it would work, 2 grafters who take the defensive side seriously and are a threat going forward.
But alas we don’t have either
It’s no revelation that when your press gets beaten and you defend mid-block or deeper, bloody everyone has to go back and be compact. The forward ‘3’ in a 4-3-3 become rather a ‘5’ in a 4-5-1 (or even 4-6-0 or 10, whatever you want to call it!). As the wide players in a 4-2-3-1 have to be part of a defending midfield ‘4’ when off the ball. Klopp’s words also (he bloody called his double-pivot system a 4-4-1-1, but I guess that sounds too defensive for fans…). Is that a good fit for Semenyo and Ekitike? Not one of them, but two? You can camouflage/protect a special player like Salah, mostly on the sides. Like Real did with Ronaldo, like PSG did with Mbappe (and inventing different things and struggling also when they had Neymar and then also Messi).
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Semenyo yes, Ekitike at this moment no as he doesn’t look like he can last 90 mins.
BTW I am not for a a diamond, I am more for a 3 5 2 to overcome our shortcomings, but alas we don’t have enough CB’s, unless you use Robbo as one.
I would also go the 3 5 2 when pushing for a goal, pushing our FBs further up
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I mean when they’re in normal shape.
I don’t like the idea of any sort of combination on the wings with any of the two out of Salah, Ekitike and Semenyo.
I don’t think that’s what Slot is after either.
I completely agree that we can’t always win the ball high up. Nobody can! The opposition has their own agency in what they are doing.
As for Salah, to my mind, whatever system we are playing, whether 433, 4231 or whatever it might be, Salah does not feature in its future.
As things stand with the current players we have, he should be a rotational option, not a mainstay. As soon as we can strengthen further e.g. Semenyo or the like, we should be thinking about phasing Salah out, much as he has been a legend for us.
Semenyo would offer more in a press than Salah, and he would also be stronger and faster at this point, giving defenders much more to think about, as right now they have a fairly comfortable time against Mo. Mind you, I wouldn’t expect Semenyo to get near to the numbers Mo was getting - I see the group carrying the load there.
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No idea what you mean in that reply
Personally think a squad overhaul is needed of the senior players, if the captain cannot inspire the team then he needs moving on , or striping of the captaincy unless he is of course deliberately trying to undermine the manager for whatever reason ( all nonsense im sure ).
Mo needs to be moved on , for reasons that we all can see.
The team needs to be built around wirtz and ekitike imo and sozbozlai needs to be made captain.
Again only my thoughts and i know all wont agree , but the team of last year is tired and obsolete
I’m not a fan of the inverted fullback runs going inside instead of outside. We need Salah and Gakpo better suited for being closer to goal, the fullback who are better at crosses and not forward okay clog the middle then leave us exposed. Saw that happen now but with Flo in the middle where he had no space to work.
The strikers then can’t make runs because they are there then too.
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Slot prefers his defenders more narrow and wingers wide.
What is confusing is the type of players we have signed for full back positions.
We could find out if something changed or we believe those players can learn different things, but those geniuses of journalists don’t ask the jucy questions.
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I know this idea has become popular, but there is just no such thing. If you press you do so with as many players as is necessary to do the job. Yes there are typical patterns you’ll see and that is heavily informed by the shape we like to have when we have the ball, but ultimately it is something that has to be responsive to what the other side is trying to do with the ball when they have it.
If you’re playing a Chelsea who add an extra body to midfield then you just have to figure out which player is now closing down non-existent options from their usual position and respond. On the other hand though you can play a Utd who have a midfield who aren’t even asking for the ball from the defenders then there is nothing that the corresponding midfielders have to press and so you end up with maybe only 3 or so players actively pressing. There are definitely situations you can be unsettled by different things the opposition is doing that put your players in areas they arent used to having to go, but that is the chess match.
This season we are struggling because we’re simply not doing it well. Some of it is the shape we have when we have the ball, and overcommitting players forward. we’ll often end up with too many players in advance of the ball when we lose it meaning it isnt possible to put the pressure where it needs to go. We are often initiating it too slowly so they have too much time on the ball to pick their passes and forcing the other players behind the ball to be more conservative in turn. But the idea there is a specific approach the opposition takes that trumps what we try to do because of the number of players we want to press with, like in a paper trumps rock sense, is far too rigid an idea for it takes to play this football.
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Wow some serous fat has ben chewed in here this PM.
I think the 3 persons in one God, knew this, and tried to flip it quick last summer.
And now it inevitably looks like a home barbecue job.
if this malaise continues, some players could be finished at this level, VVD and Mo in particular.
Slot did like to use 4222.
That would allow for Macca/Jones, Gravenberch, Wirtz, Szoboszlai in midfield.
I agree a lot with your comments about 442 diamond. It requires a lot of cohesion that we just haven’t got atm.
4222 didn’t look very promising when we have used it either.
We’re in such a situation that fantasy formations just aren’t going to be helpful or useful. It’s better to stick with what the players are used to playing. Concentrate on getting something familiar coherent and workable.
We did play twice last season with two false #9’s (like Arsenal basically do now in the last few games with Eze and Merino).
It was the Brighton cup game and City away.
And if we arent winning 25-0 after 2 minutes a large portion of the fan base will be demanding we restart the game with Mo and Cody back in the starting XI
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