Ding Dong.....the US Politics Thread (Part 1)

Away End - General Chat
6886

:astonished:

6887

Luckily I’ve never been physically present for one, although I have witnessed a cop lose his rag and shoot a guy dead. However, almost no one is more than 1 degree removed from someone who has experienced one. Just off the top of my head of the ones that hit closest to home…

  • Pulse nightclub is just down the street from me and so I know maybe 30 people who were either there that night or who were professionally involved in the response either as medical personnel or swat.

  • A former colleague of mine lost her husband in the Capital Gazette shooting about 3-4 years ago

  • Several friends of mine worked in an office building here in town that experienced something pretty similar to the Capital Gazette shooting, but I think everyone got out before he could kill anyone.

  • I know people from about 4 schools who experienced a school shooting while they were there.

It’s just non-stop. The day after the Colorado mall shooting the news focused on another mall shooting in Atlanta, but there in that two day span there were 3 other incidents that met the definition of “mass shooting” in which at least one person died. Between then and now (a week) there have 12 others prior to the one you posted about.

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6888

Oh shit, I forget the Christina Grimmie murder. That happened the night before Pulse half a mile form my house. That Saturday night was a really sort of upbeat night with everyone reacting to that happening in our neighborhood only to then hear the news of Pulse happening before your night had finished.

6889

That’s just absolutely heart-breaking. Do you get the sense that US attitudes are, at last, moving (if only slowly) towards greater gun-control?

Are these mass-shooting instances increasing or is it a case that they’re getting greater attention?

It just baffles me how lax gun-control laws are in so many states across the US. The fact that some startes are able to introduce gun-controls and the government is capable of introducing an element of federal control suggests to me that restrictions on gun-ownership isn’t automatically in contravention of the 2nd amendment. How far can these restrictions go before there are legitimate arguments that the 2nd amendment is being infringed? Has this gone before the Supreme Court at all?

6890

If anything I feel they are covered less…like there are so many of them that there has to be some unique hook to make it interesting enough to turn it into a national story rather than just a local one.

As for attitudes, the debate is broken. There is hope that the NRA’s financial problems might help dilute the purposeful obfuscation from the “they’re coming for my guns” crew, but I dont have much faith.

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6891

The problem is a case did go before the Supreme Court in 2008 (DC vs Heller) and it was an incredibly controversial decision that considerably expanded the rights to personal ownership (away from ownership as part of a well regulated militia). Despite that though, almost nothing that is ever proposed is a violation of the 2nd amendment and is only presented as such by people using bad faith, given that the right is to regulate ownership is explicitly stated in the amendment.

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6892

The current make up of the Supreme Court only makes it more unlikely that we will get sensible gun restrictions, assuming a case goes up that far and reaches them.

Anecdotally, but here in sleepy Indiana I know lots of people who have lots of guns. They look normal. They are educated. They have professional jobs. They don’t break the law and they aren’t in gangs or anything like that. But there is a gun subculture that is firmly entrenched here.

I agree that the debate is broken too.

On another note, I changed the policy at our office to not bring guns to work. Worked closely with a lawyer friend of mine to do it. We had several staff members who carry, and I got some policy in place to nip that in the bud, with regard to the office.

Tensions rose because this Brit (US citizen now too) came over here and poked at something, albeit on a tiny scale. I’m not working in an office if people are bringing guns to work. It’s bloody nuts!

Fortunately I didn’t get shot because they would have had to go out to the parking lot and retrieve said firearm from being locked away out of sight in their vehicle, and their lardy arses couldn’t be arsed.

Still, fun times.

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6893

I live in a small town in Maine that would regard itself “safe” but I know of a number of local violent incidents.

Given that my town has a population of around 6000 people, the nearby town where the couple were murdered has around 2000 and the nearby city where the Walmart shooting happened has only 18000 then to me it’s pretty clear there is an issue of violence in American society and adding guns to that mix only makes it more dangerous (although I don’t know what can be done about it now, there are just so many guns out there).

These were just the violent crimes I can think of from the top of my head, I’m sure if I spent a few minutes on google I could find a lot more.

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6894

I think there are around 400 million guns out there now. Crazy.

The House would pass a law tomorrow to ban assault weapons and tighten up background checks. These two measures, which would hardly change the madness but would be a small step in the right direction, will almost certainly be shot down in the Senate, even though the public is well on board with both measures - including many pro Second Amendment people.

Unfortunately too many politicians are bought and paid for. The gun lobby is powerful. And the soundbite, “They are coming for your guns” speaks to a large segment of the American population in a primal way.

To European sensibilities the whole thing is madness.

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6895

Pun intended? :wink:

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6896

I wish I was that clever!

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6897

The laughable thing about Heller is it’s the perfect mirror example of what the conservatives always go on about. Original intent. Heller is just judicial activism of the conservative kind.

@Kopstar, the second part of your question. Are all these mass shootings changing American attitudes about guns? Hard to believe so. Americans love guns, stories with guns, gun legendry, simple gun justice acted out by everyone from Dirty Harry to John Wick. During the first six months of the pandemic, it was hard to find many popular sizes of ammo in many sporting goods stores. People were stocking up, even though they likely haven’t shot the ammo they bought when Obama was elected in order to have plenty for the new gun control measures that never arrived. Good times, bad times, buy guns and ammo. Crazy thing is even if the 2nd Amendment ended tomorrow, there’s enough arms in our country to make it dangerous for a couple centuries.

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6899

Here’s an example. I took this photo early in the pandemic. The empty shelf you see is usually filled with 5.65mm and 7.62mm ammo, respectively the two sizes used in the U.S. M-16 and Russian AK-47.

I know, if you don’t live in this country, you’re probably thinking, “WTF! You can buy bullets like canned vegetables.” Yes, yes you can.

It got blown out and stayed empty well into the summer.

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6900

I think the smaller bore is used in the Kalashnikov.

Are the shelves empty due to lack of restocking?

6901

I think you’ve missed the entire gist of the last few posts. They’re empty because of absolutely massive demand for them. The residents of normal countries panic bought toilet paper and cleaned the shelves (okay maybe that’s not so normal but you know what I mean), these guys not only cleaned out the bog roll but the ammo as well…

AK is 7.62 btw.

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6902

Yeah, that’s what I intended to ask. If it’s due to lack of stocking or excessive buying.

6904

Tbf, if I saw people stocking up on ammo I’d bulk buy bog roll as well.

It does remind me of Bill Burr’s sketch about the reasons he wanted to get a gun… :joy:

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6905
6907

Suspect must be a white guy, huh?

6908

Probably got his dates mixed up. He’s a few months late.