Loved the place when we went a few years ago. Happy to admit I cried most of the way round the air and space museum.
Disappointed that there was nothing to see?
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Yeah, empty. Nothing of interest at all…
Did you miss the joke? 
After 19 years .
- I assume the Guardian is an ok source?
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It’s an impossible situation. It’s gone on way too long and nothing much has been achieved bar providing some slight relief from the grim awfulness of the Taliban. There will be a short civil war followed by a Taliban victory and it’s back to square one. There is no military solution for the US, but a Taliban led Afghanistan could well be a haven for all the Islamic extremists of the world. The only sure thing is that the Afghan people will continue to suffer for decades ahead.
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It’s quite hypocritical from Biden to talk about right and responsibility of the Afghan people, when he was a full part of the Obama government who decided to go on with that stupid war at the time. So, has he seen the light now, or is it just that the US haven’t the means anymore to entertain an army there? Or, is it that they have to recognise defeat, just like the Soviets before them?
Anyway, this long and costly war is yet again a proof that nothing can be achieved through warmongering. Everyone gets out of this as a loser, except for the Talibans, who will be able to reaffirm their tyranny on the country by claiming themselves winners of the war against foreign invasion.
Might be a cliche but Afghanistan has been the place empires come to lose for centuries, probably all the way back to Alexander. Winning the initial phase has never been the problem, it’s holding it in a peaceful manner after that is all but impossible. It is unfortunate but it is likely the Taliban will come back in force and the people will go back under their rule with no real long term prospect of it being loosened. The real mistake for this variant of Afghanistan being impossible to govern stems back to the Soviet invasion back in the 80’s. The rise of the extremist movements can pretty much be directly traced back to then. Fuck knows how it is ever going to come right.
The Americans and their allies should pull out for good, or for ill. Long term occupation is simply not feasible.
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A bit off topic, but I’m not sure we’re going to have a Central Asia Politics thread.
This book is fascinating for anyone interested in the region or the British Empire:
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Thanks for your approval - It means so much.
Who is reporting a story is very important. Who is not reporting a story is also very important.
I will definitely continue to quote from the unbiased Guardian.
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Meanwhile…
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I have seen the video and in this instance, it’s a horrible unfortunate incident.
There are numerous incidents where police have been thugs, racists, and abusing their power over the last year. But I don’t blame the cop in this instance. He saw the gun, at night time, in a dark alleyway and reacted in a split second. (The police were responding to shots fired by that kid at a car)
Any kid should never be shot by police. But at the same time its a fraction of a second between having a gun in his hand, and raising his hands (done in one motion). The cop has no idea of his age. The threat was very real.
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More signs of blatant hypocrisy from the new administration in charge. Some things never change, eh?
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I believe there was a much better way of handling this situation. Understand I’m playing Monday morning QB here but the cop sprints straight down a dark alley towards a supposed shooter and opens fire on him immediately. The kid has actually dropped the gun by then and is therefore unarmed.
I’ve never served in the police but I have completed some related trainings particularly with the military and several things stand out to me…
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The officer runs full speed towards someone he believes is armed and has been firing shots. To me this seems a very odd move rather than approaching more strategically and using cover/distance to minimise the risk to both himself and the alleged shooter. I agree the officer no doubt felt he was under threat but the way he approached the situation increased that threat level. He placed himself in harm’s way.
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I was taken aback by the immediacy of the police officer opening fire. It, at least in the video, looked like a split second between shouting at the kid to put his hands up and opening fire. Again I agree that the officer probably couldn’t tell he had dropped the gun but that’s because everything happened so quickly. There was practically no time for the officer to assess the situation and equally virtually no time for the alleged shooter to follow the officers commands for surrender. To me this related to point 1. If the officer approaches more methodically he can take a proper assessment of the situation and call for the kids surrender from cover meaning he doesn’t feel as threatened and doesn’t have to open fire as quickly (in this case he probably wouldn’t have fired at all).
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A more abstract point but many seems to be arguing (and I’m not saying this is you) that “what did he expect, he had a gun of course the police shot”. The people making that argument also argue heavily in favour of the 2nd amendment so there’s now a weird situation where pro-gun activists are claiming it’s ok for the police to execute you on the spot if you have a gun. If they were honest they would just admit they think it’s OK for the police to murder non-whites with guns.
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A rather more facetious point but I do believe that if I shot a surrending enemy combatant while on a military operation then I have, at least technically, committed a war crime. It strikes me that the US Police have some instances, and more recently, where they treat US Citizens like people they are at war with and not people they’re protecting.
In conclusion I agree with you that this isn’t a clear case of a police officer being racist or thuggish with his use force. I do however believe there are clear lessons to be taken about how to approach these kind of situations, although I very much doubt any lessons will be taken from it.
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Oh wow, I sometimes work with FedEx Indianapolis for my job. This is awful.
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What was noticeable, for me, was that the officer didn’t tell him to keep facing away from him and show him his hands.
When someone is facing towards you and pulls their hands out of their pockets it creates a much greater chance that you’re going to apprehend that they are drawing a weapon. That fear is massively reduced if they are facing away from you.
Rather than asking someone to show their hands, perhaps the officer should first ask them to stop (which they did), then ask them to face away from them, then ask them to show their hands? I’m surprised this isn’t already protocol - or maybe it is and it wasn’t followed?
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I’ve also just seen some things about police training where they use cut outs of pregnant women and children as targets to train on as part of the idea of reducing “hesitation”. Even if they were just training to reduce hesitation without the targets I’d massively disagree. An officer’s hesitation is essential to preserving life.
It seems the police, at least in some places, are trained that theirs is the only life that matters and that is completely wrong.
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I agree and but I think it’s one of those things that have been very polarised in the reporting but I think it’s an issue of shades of grey.
It’s one of those instances where multiple bad decisions led to a bad outcome.
From the moment a 13 year old was outside at 2am shooting a gun, his life was at risk. There are multiple failures that led to that point (exploitative gangs, schools, guardians etc).
Equally, as soon as that cop engaged in the apprehension it had a high probability of ending badly for either him or who ever he was chasing there are multiple failures (Training, trigger happy culture). To me at face value it’s pretty dumb to chase someone down a dark ally. I can only assume he thought the other guy was the one with the firearm.
I have seen it reported there was 0.8 seconds between the kid throwing the gun and being shot. Given reaction times are probably about half of that, the cop probably saw the gun and immediately shot. By the time he was holding up his hands it was too late.
A sad death, from outside of US looking in, just as much focus should be on inner city kids being exploited by gangster lifestyle as incompetent cops.
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And even more pertinently why gang culture exists. As you say the societal failings that lead to this moment are monumental - education and poverty ultimately are the root cause of many problems.
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