Fair point. But is anything actually reprehensible in Washington now? A man who encouraged an insurrection is returning to the White House. I find it hard to condemn Biden for recognizing his nation now has no moral fibre, and simply acting to protect his son.
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You can condemn both? Itâs whatâs needed in this country if we are going to fix anything at all.
As you know I am not a Trump supporter. Far from it. I am embarrassed that he is leading this country. But I am also aware that the resistance to criticizing the wrongdoings of the other side only leads to further anger and may very well have led to Trump.
As for Biden recognizing his nation has no moral fiber? Well a nationâs more fiber comes from its citizens. And he has demonstrated he is lacking in that regard.
If your point is he gave up because the country is toast, I get it. I doubt it, but then I get it.
I see where @Arminius is coming from, thereâs no point acknowledging moral standards and keeping up the standards if the country simply disregards them anyway. What difference does it make at this point? They will excuse anything for the orange cult, but when it comes to the Democrats, they need to be holier than Jesus.
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I do too but how far are you willing to take this argument then at levels below the presidency?
Because this will have ramifications starting tomorrow.
I also think this line of argument would assume that Biden would not have pardoned his son if Trump hadnât won? Or if a different GOP candidate had won? Which one would have led to Biden not pardoning Hunter?
I genuinely cannot think of an example where a nation has come back from this sort of collapse of morals and norms. This process is just beginning now. As I see it, this is a far more serious situation than 1860, where despite stark division on a few issues, there was a real consensus as to what government should look like, what it should do.
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Do you think Biden would have done this if Harris had won? I donât.
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That basically is my point, yeah.
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I fully agree with you on the downfall actually. I think we were just arguing any different wavelengths.
At this point, I would just settle for a good human. And that makes me strongly averse to Bidenâs action today.
I apologize if I argued something you didnât mean to.
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Speculation, but yes. I think he would have. I have zero faith in that manâs morals. I guess the lesser evil thing has me fatigued. The lesser evil is still evil.
I think @Arminius is saying, this is the end of the republic. So from Bidenâs perspective, why not just pardon his son and get out of it?
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I donât think Biden is a bad man. But he has always had a pragmatic side to his character. I suspect he is in a bad place right now. The world he lived in is ending. Washington is not the place it once was, his instinct to see the consensus bipartisan middle that was the foundation of his Senate career is now just naivete.
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Yes, I get it. We just had different starting points for the discussion. And I shouldnât have take. It further. See apology above.
I have great respect for @Arminius and didnât mean to cross wires.
It still does leave the question open about individual responsibility in a failing republic 
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We differ in that first sentence. But thatâs neither here nor there. And probably not worth a discussion since his term is behind us.
There is no offence. Heck, you are the one living there. I have refused to cross that border since 2016. But I am deeply pessimistic about the next 20 years, not least because I have had great confidence in Americaâs better angels for a long time, and that is now gone.
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Biden doing this is telling Americans that actually, the Democrats are no better than the GOP. Come next election, this will be brought up to demonstrate that point.
Biden is a selfish old man who doesnât think his son should face the music. He was selfish when his polling numbers were tanking and stayed in the race until the very last second before handing the reigns to Kamala.
I donât care about shattered political norms. Saying that it doesnât matter now is the equivalent of looting a store during a riot: anybody could take advantage but only the true opportunistic arseholes do.
At least the guy is showing his true colours I suppose. Is and always was a cunt looking out for number 1.
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A riot is a momentary collapse of social restraints. I donât believe that is what we are seeing now. As I noted above, nations donât come back from this sort of state without some kind of cataclysmic upheaval and reconfiguration.
I donât think anyone is even going to remember Hunter Biden in a couple of months, let alone four years.
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Speaking of can we just start with getting a good human in governmentâŚseems much too difficult, I guess.
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Exactly.
Itâs already ridiculous that a criminal was nominated and then win the Presidency of supposedly the greatest country of the world. And then when the other side does something as ridiculous as abusing the system to pardon his own criminal son when he has insisted he wonât do do, the response is always âoh ya but thatâs because TrumpâŚâ
Both can be condemned for itâs own demerits. You donât always need to take sides.
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