I have a good friend whose daughter went through this. I saw her grow up genuinely confused. She contemplated suicide many times. It’s painful to watch friends go through this. She’s an adult now, and went through a partial transition by having her breasts removed. I also saw it tear their family apart as his grandparents rejected him.
But then there’s this.
I am genuinely confused by what point you think this is making. I dont get how you can post this at the same time as promoting Wu’s take of how trivially the issue is being treated by the medical establishment, which is flatly rejected by the data. This is a scenario that speaks to genuine serious emotional issues associated with dysphoria, the potentially life saving effect of receiving treatment and the sometimes enormous social consequences of doing so, again arguing against the triviality of the process
People have been having sex changes for decades. I worked with a man at one of our companies who became a woman for over 10 years. Nobody cared.
The problem is that it became a political movement pushed by activists to extremes. The legitimate concerns of trans people - healthcare, marriage, etc. - were over-run by those saying we have to accept everyone no matter what.
The sports issue is an obvious one. But the gender extremists refused to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, some men were pretending to be women to get into women’s spaces.
In this case you are still an outsider.
The girl who contemplated suicide, does she think you are right? I don’t even know if she had hormone therapy when she was a teen, but in your word she only did a surgery when she was an adult. My opinion is moot, but at the same time you shouldn’t use someone else’s situation to justify your view.
I grew up hating my body, but nobody knew my struggles because there was no help. At least let the kids have proper counseling and stop spewing copy pasted drivel that will make them hate themselves even more.
Close the thread, folks, Brianna Wu “believes” it so therefore it’s true. Authoritative.
No one even is pretending that. The Tinker Bell bell example you gave earlier, that wasn’t someone pretending they were a woman, were they? It was someone, who by the sounds of it, would be normally condemned as being “off their rocker” if the issue wasn’t politicised by the likes of the people who successfully pushed it as part of their culture war, which you have repeatedly refused to acknowledge is the case.
What are you even trying to say here? That’s a lot of words that make absolutely no sense at all together.
It’s not to justify my view. It’s to say that I sympathize with what my friends went through. I can’t speak for anyone else.
But that’s not what I’m arguing.
And the voters.
This is a politics thread.
You have repeatedly refused to engage with any of the points discussing why voters might have voted that way.
Just repeated your same bullshit over and over again.
I’ve told you why. You refuse to believe it.
As we talk about trivial medical treatment for gender affirmative care, the most recent stats I have seen suggest there were just above 1000 top surgeries in the US on teens over the most recently studied 3 year period.
In contrast, there are over 3000 breast augmentation surgeries conducted on american teens every year.
Similar to the use of hormone blockers, it only became an issue when trans kids were trying to access the same Tx.
See that’s exactly the problem. You believe you’re right, you have all the answers.
You’re just sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “la la la” at the top of your voice.
I don’t doubt that for some, it is life saving. But I’m not sure if we have enough data to make conclusions about all situations. Which is why you are going to see more of this.
In regards to a ban on males in female sport, here in Maine we allow students in High School to select whether they want to play as male or female and they don’t have to provide any kind of medical documentation to prove it. The only stipulation is that if they play in, for example, the girl’s soccer team in the fall season then they have to stay in female teams for the rest of the season (they can’t decide to play female soccer, male basketball and female lacrosse for example).
Anyway, I’m the head girls soccer coach at one of the biggest high schools in the state, which is admittedly probably pretty small compared to most states, but we have between 700-800 students depending on the year. So far I haven’t seen a single male, or at least someone who looks male, try to play on a female team either for my school or any other school we have played against.
Our rec league program is co-ed until age 12.
I do know some of my girls team wish that they had the opportunity to play American Football but none of them have tried to join the team.
Anyway, yes that’s anecdotal from a state with a small population but as far as I am concerned I don’t really see it being or becoming an issue.
From a numbers perspective, it’s not. But it’s a hugely symbolic one.
This is a false premise. It is not the absence of data that prevents us being able to say something about “all situations”. It is unreasonable to think that there will be no cases of regret for someone who has transitioned, but those documented cases are very rare and the low rate is actually the result of the medicalization of the issue being so rigorous, in complete opposition to the right wing framing
We don’t have the data about those who were misled and wrongly transitioned. But we’re going to find out.
All the arguments used here are very similar to the church’s anti abortion talking points. 1. Anecdotal evidences. 2. False scientific claims. 3. Making fake or blow up statistics. 4. Stretching claims to make this is the most dangerous thing that can happen to women/the kids. In essentially, the people not asking to be protected with these ‘laws’.
I’m just quite upset with the empathetic claim. I guess he does, but not really.
See also: anti-marriage quality, or further back, racism. Nothing new here, all standard playbook.
This is the perfect illustration of the right’s position.
Them: this thing is happening really frequently and we must address it. Kids are going to really gregret being rushed through this
Me: The dats show rates of regret is actually astonishing low
Them: Yeah but we dont have much data
Me: If it was happening as much as you say wouldnt there be more than enough data to be comfortable with the conclusions?
It is true there isnt much data. That would generally give people pause for taking the conclusions as much more than suggestive. Except in cases where the directionality and lack of variability in the data is so consistent. As is the case with what data on satisfaction rates with procedures related to transitioning.
See this as one example. The MEDIAN score was 100%. If I was a reviewer of a paper and saw this distribution I would assume the data fudged. And by an idiot. That is how unusual this level of success is.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/2808129?utm_source=chatgpt.com#google_vignette
About the best critics can ever point to are studies showing the number of people who dont report satisfaction. But that is not the same as dissatisfaction or regret. What this generally comes from are people who didnt see the magnitude of benefit they hoped they would get from the surgery, most often because they started getting help too late. Either because it was a later in life realization for them or because things like hormone blockers were denied from them when they were a teen