Hendo had more good performances for us than Thiago, Ox, Keita, Can and Lallana combined.
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Oh yes Hendo was so bad that Klopp continues choosing him as the captain, the squad continues to respect his captaincy, yea the captain that won everything. You can call him lucky but I prefer to call him an inspiration that if you work hard enough, ordinary people can achieve extraordinary things.
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Ugh, we are mixing a ton of different periods here, forgetting some of Kloppâs principles that brought us success and also overexaggerating.
When Klopp took over, Henderson had one of those rare seasons affected by injury. It was a tricky one because it was a heel issue and couldnât get rid of the pain.
There was a chance for other players to come in and takeover, it didnât happen. The double-pivot stuff in Basel from Milner and Can was not up to level. Not that it was the only or main reason why we lost that final, mind.
We then started the 16/17 season with a change in shape from a 4-4-1-1 (as Klopp used to call it when he went double-pivot) to 4-3-3. Hendo at the base as #6 and Bobby as a false #9. Lallana was by form our best midfielder as a RCM #8 in that shape until he got injured, closely followed by Hendo in his deep role.
We slowly improved and managed to mantain a level, with two narrow finishes in the top 4 (we got a point less in 17/18) and the final in Kiev. Hendo was still at the base by that time and a while to go until Fabinho got going (which didnât happen at the very start of 18/19, but weâll get there). How we evolved to a very dangerous attacking trio and our full backs, we needed balance in midfield.
Oxâs form was real for a period, but also overblown in the memory of certain fans. Two goals against City didnât suddenly make him a world beater. Though for me, I believe he might have started in Kiev if he wasnât injured, but not instead of Hendo. Probably instead of Gini, judging by form and importance (Milner was so trusted by Klopp on both sides of central midfield and had 11 assists in that CL campaign) at the time.
I wanted us to test Kroosâ defensive transition aspect by putting a pacy player on his side and someone defensively more astute on Modricâs side. We went with Gini at RCM and Milner at LCM. I wouldâve flipped their sides.
By the end of that 17/18 season, yes, you can say judging by our moves in the transfer market (Keita, who was already signed in 2017 and Fabinho in 2018) and what almost happened (Fekir), Klopp was ready to challenge absolutely everyone in our midfield. But itâs not only that, it doesnât mean he would want to displace all 3 at the same time, but get quality in depth.
For me, I thought Gini, albeit a good signing at the time, was so-so in many games and probably the least good starting midfielder in that 2016-2018 period. And we were reaching a point where we were looking to further evolve our game and add more layers. Teams dropping, not willing to leave any space because of our front 3, us having more possession and then bloody needing to be creative with it.
So, summer 2017 is already decision time from us for Keita to be signed as a transfer record, that speaks volumes, but itâs still not towards Hendo. Gini reacted brilliantly from 2018 onwards, Iâm guessing because he felt the biggest threat. And his LCM zone is where Keita was best suited (or shouldâve worked).
Fabinho took a good while to get going and break into the team to become a regular starter. Some things were clear already in pre-season. Keita initially adapted well (then struggled), Fabinho needed time. He was dropping too deep between our CBâs when we did our build-up, while Klopp wasnât asking for that. Hendo picked up an injury I think and Gini had was one of our most in-form players when he filled in that single #6 role at the start of 18/19.
When Fabinho broke in, you have a situation where Hendo was still performing really well that fans were asking themselves, how do we fit both players in, do we flip the structure again (the constant shouts to revert back to â4-2-3-1â) or what. I remember some quotes at the time and it seems like Klopp was skeptical about putting Hendo at one of the two #8âs, but Hendo pushed to get a chance at RCM and took it with both hands. I think Porto away in the CL was one of if not the first game in that combination of the moment when it all clicked and for a while it meant Hendo wasnât looking back (instead of the odd dropping to replace Fabinho when he wasnât available or we were chasing the game).
I absolutely believe that we did only whatâs responsible, despite having a well oiled, hard working midfield, we constantly looked for ways to improve, without trying to overdo it. Itâs also connected to Lijndersâ arrival and our further evolution in possession. Then, yeah, it depends also how those signings do. But there are differences in skills and roles, we should not mix for example Oxâs direct style with Keitaâs or Thiagoâs for more control. Or bloody Fekir (who I think if it had gone through and worked, wouldâve been used as a backup to Bobby and Salah ) We can agree that all those players are different to what we had in midfield, but they would not bring the same things.
We always needed to have some of the hard working ones and Hendo, in his time here in general and also under Klopp, mainly wasnât in question. The likes of Gini pre-2018, Fabinho pre-winter 18/19 and Milner (as he was even shifted to LB for a season), yeah. The low-level or least good seasons Hendo had were his first here under Kenny when he was used as a right winger (mind you, he did get some games centrally in which he already did well, one was United at home). Then he had to survive (yes, thatâs the moment when you could truly call him lucky when he almost got traded for Dempsey, or so desperate to make it here that he rejected the move) and prove himself to Rodgers, which he did in the following 3 seasons (not forgetting taking the armband from Stevie).
So from the end of 2020 (possibly Hendoâs peak, with all the awards he got, even if I didnât objectivelly agree with some of them, or better to say they came as a recognition for a few years altogether) with a CL and a league title in our bag, we have a situation where Fabinho is fully settled at #6, Hendo is still a mainstay at RCM and Gini is mostly at LCM. Ox already had a few injuries and his ceiling at Liverpool is lower, even if he had 40+ games in our title winning season, canât forget that. Millie is always there and Keita isnât really cutting it, due to intensity of the team, league, some injuries and perhaps not having the right state of mind to battle with the rest.
What we do, we go and bring Thiago, at that moment arguably the in-form central midfielder in Europe who won it all with Bayern. We already know that he had injuries in the past, that he played less games in shorter seasons with a winter break in Germany, so heâs not being brought to be a 50+ games per season physical machine, but add what he does best, also knowing heâs right at his peak or by giving him a 4-year deal, weâll have him also post his prime. For me, heâs a better player than transfer. Just like you have better transfers than players. Shaqiri is one example of that. Business side great, player side⌠not really enough.
Again, whatâs Thiagoâs best zone? More left-sided. Bayern were mostly double-pivot at the time, so naturally Gini was again a target, just like when Keita was brought. But then Thiago got injured and when he came back, we tried him in all midfield roles, which was poor by Klopp in my opinion. He tried Thiago initially as a single pivot #6 and then also a few games at RCM (in that problematic season at CB when we needed to drop the likes of Fabinho and Hendo, who missed almost half the season through injury). That used to be a role where we wanted a player who could both offer security defensively and support offensively. Not really what Thiago is good at. Klopp did my head in at times with certain midfielder in different roles.
One more chance for someone to come in for Hendo while he was out, but where was that player, who took it? Hendo was again back at RCM for our brilliant 21/22 season (a few goals short of a quadruple), when we mainly did it through Fabinho, Hendo and Thiago in midfield. Keita was also pretty good that season with his 40 games.
Hendo was picked a rare few times under Klopp at LCM (if I remember well, to accomodate Elliott at RCM), but it didnât look good.
The 22/23 season we can say marks the end of most of that midfield.
You donât spend 12 years at a club (of which 8 and a bit as captain), coached by 3 different coaches, 492 appearances, 33 goals, 58 assists, winning 7 trophies by being lucky.
We can say he was a bit lucky when Rodgers wanted to replace him. Thatâs all. All the rest he did it by merit and in the few times he got injured, he always came back to win his place. And he survived the longest.
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Tl/dr:
Yes, but no, but yes, but what? Something Hendo. Was he any good? Maybe, maybe not.
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The vendetta is ducking stupid but to a degree I respect the level of saltiness to keep coming back to the idea years after he left to keep saying he was shit.
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We can throw to the discussion Carraâs comment the other day that he couldâve comfortably remained at the club and be in Endoâs current role. To get a proper send off at the end.
Not that I think Hendo wouldâve accepted such a role, so itâs probably better that we parted ways. We got very good money for him and Fabinho, a little bit unexpected. If we had known at the time, I wonder if our targets wouldâve been a bit different, like getting involved for Riceâs signature at the time.
Football cannot be romantic all the time, send offs depend on many things, you have last years of your career to make decisions.
Thereâs no reason for him not to be remembered as a club legend and Iâm sure heâll be back at Anfield post his playing career and still get nice receptions like he deserves.
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Hendo was excellent for us. A leader and a smashing player. He was a good captain and he won the Prem with us.
He was more than good enough in comparison to his peers. He suffers slightly due to coming after Stevie, and then also the way his time ended, with a poor choice to go to Saudi Arabia given his vocal support for the lgbt community.
But leaving those things aside, and just looking at what he brought on the pitch, he was very good indeed.
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Every player gets this thrown at them, itâs like Robbo or Bradley they go from amazing to the glue factory most weeks.
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Hendo is the player who has lifted the most amount of trophies as captain for us isnât he?
Something like that. He must have done something right.
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He is the only player I have seen that could mark 3 opponents at the same time with his positioning then time his pressure on the ball to force the opponent with the ball to run across the pitch 3 times before Gini could get there and win the ball. This Game after game. He won us soo much time to organise which is soo valuable and we havenât had since.
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Itâs absolutely crazy revisionism to call Jordan Henderson limited or lucky.
He is the embodiment of the idea of squeezing every last drop of talent out of yourself, and while there were players more naturally gifted than him, few could say they worked harder or were more committed to giving their absolute best.
Liverpool are going through a shit run at the minute, and itâs times like this Iâd give anything to have Jordan Henderson around, setting the standards that everyone should consider the bare minimum.
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Iâm sure many remember the days of CHAD.
Not sure who expected to see him still at the club years later, lifting trophies. He gave plenty.
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He was not elegant and his talent gets unfairly knocked down for that as if technique and aesthetics are the only dimension on which you can judge footballing talent. In reality football is played in the head as much as it is with the legs and he was absolutely excellent in that department. The trope of him succeeding through grit and hard work really downplays that he read the game excellently and the faster the pace of the game was the more he stood out in that department.
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If someone calls Hendo limited, Iâve no issues with that. All players have their limits, of different levels. Even if itâs not something clearly seen or for all people to agree on. I think we know what people mean when they say that about Hendo.
But to call him lucky⌠nah. He had a bit of luck when his Liverpool career was on the line when he almost got traded for Dempsey, thatâs true. I believe he wouldâve battled his way to another important team from Fulham.
All the rest was down to merit, he did really well.
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Oddly his move did leave a bad taste in my mouth but with time the moments he brought have put that into the shade. I will always appreciate what he gave us.
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Szobozlai has Hendersonâs engine but better footwork
His departure aside, he captained and organized our side to our best run of trophies in generations. A little respect is due here, he was the glue for years.
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I always thought he had that cross perfected when it was laid backto him in a right half position and he always delivered, forwards loved that because they knew it was always coming in and could time their runs.
Something we miss now.
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Charlie Adams, Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll. Jordan doesnât deserve to be placed alongside that lot - really it should be CAD.
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Agreed. If he had a bit more luck heâd have won 4 PL titles and 2/3 CL medals. If he hadnât been suspended for the Chelsea and Palace games in 2014 weâd likely have won that title and you donât finish on 97/98 points and not win the PL if you are âluckyâ.
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