In my opinion, it’s more a case of you and a few others consistently underrating the squad.
The midfield in particular, which you keep repeating that it isn’t good enough, didn’t win the title because of superstar attackers and defenders; it won the league because it provided a platform for said attackers and defenders to perform. There is no reason to think that these maligned midfielders can’t do it again, provided that they are coached and drilled to do so. It doesn’t take some great talent to pass the ball forward to Wirtz or whomever else it may be, as long as they are doing it time after time as a part and a pattern of a training session. That’s not to say that they are world beaters, or that they don’t have deficiencies, but as midfields go, this one is well above average, at least in the PL.
As for the squad, there are question marks and there are positions which look weak in terms of depth, if not quality, but it’s not as a bad as some of you like to think. Maybe Chiesa and Elliott and Tsimikas, to name a few of the more suspect players, won’t be able to provide anything, but I’d rather see them under a coach who actually gets the most out of his players, before deciding that they are done for.
I watched a tactical breakdown of Iraola’s midfield tactics a day or two ago, and while I agree we’re a better squad than some are saying, it did leave me with the lasting impression that our midfield does lack a skilled distributor. Whether that’s Wharton or whoever I don’t know, but we do seem to have a range of carriers and no real pass-specialists.
It also left me thinking that Dom is going to be fantastic under Iraola given what’s required of him, but I’m less sure about Grav, or at least Grav as a partner for Dom. Maybe next season (ie 27/28) we’ll see them as two players competing for one midfield role, and Mac has moved on and someone like Wharton brought in as the second CM role, with Nyoni being a natural understudy there.
But for this season I think we seem to have a restricted budget with the bulk of it allocated for Barcola, and so I think we’ll be hoping to make do with what we have as best we can.
Fortunately we have a manager now with a good track record in doing just that.
I know what you are saying but I just don´t see it that way. They had the best CB of all time behind them, the best GK in the World in goal, a right back who can do the passing job a midfield should do, a World Class left back, and the right right winger in the world who at times carried us.
None of that is here anymore and so now they have to do more than just be solid and a generic platform. There is a lot of reason to think they can´t do it again. They don´t have a right back who can do their passing. They don´t have a superstar winger who will create stuff from nothing. Now they actually have to make things happen with the ball.
You say it doesn´t take some great talent to pass the ball to Wirtz, but most of our midfield aren´t capable of it. Only Jones seems to be. Another reason I wouldn´t sell him.
But I am curious, how would you evaluate our midfield? As players, what do you think they do well and how do you think they fit together in the side? Am I missing something maybe.
I´m not saying they´re mid table players but obviously we are aiming to be number 1, hence the high standards.
For sure, work-rate, but allied with excellent mobility. I think he’s also someone who can intelligently lead a press (I watched some good analysis from Klopp’s last season on how he did this from the no10, and how much worse we were at pressing as a whole when he wasn’t in the team doing that role), and he’s got a good strike on him as a source of goals from range, and with Trent gone he’s our best setpiece taker. I see him as a key player in linking the defence and attack. I think he’s great.
Yeah he is dynamic, and shoots very well. Has a good clutch moments ability too. it is true.
I just think that that works well as the 3rd midfielder alongside players who pass and protect. He´s more impactful in the final third, but if he is one of the two, we will lack a proper passing game in our midfield . Hopefully we can out work other midfields, with both him and Grav being athletic.
As your edit suggests, he´s better as that third midfielder or in the 10 where he can go and do all that stuff and not worry about the nitty gritty of midfield work. But with Wirtz in the 10 I don´t think he´s a fit. I know you mentioned him as a key link but he´s not very good at getting the ball off the defence, turning and zipping it into the attackers quickly.
Yeah, the tactical breakdown I mentioned in the first post did make it seem like we need someone who will receive the ball deep from the GK or CBs and distribute it quickly either to the wings or between the lines centrally, so I’d definitely say I’ve come around to your way of thinking on what our midfield currently lacks.
I’d definitely have Dom in there though, and add a specialist distributor DM/CM hybrid type to pair with him, I think that would be a very strong combo.
I think Nyoni and Jones are our current best bets of that. Nyoni to me looks very positive minded and doesnt want to pass around the back four. Jones messes about a lot with his silly turns and trying to be stylish but underneath it he is capable of doing that role decently enough for now.
But I wasnt too convinced by Nyoni with Szobo. Still early but they didn´t seem to link up much, which I was hoping to see. Then again, they were easily on top of Leeds.
It’s a shame Nyoni is still so young and inexperienced, I think had he been even just a couple of years further along in his development this summer, everyone would be happy to see him take on Jones’ squad role.
Yep looks very good. Calm, composed, reads the game well and positive in his passing. I think the Como selections showed he wont be playing as much at the start though.
Something along these lines, for me.
Meaning, priority in being excited watching the team play, and creating an environment of belief. The rest can follow.
It’s really exciting looking at our squad and its potential. And it’s so important for this young squad that there’s a couple of veterans still here, who won things with Liverpool, like van Dijk (35) and Alisson (33).
There’s such an exciting group of young players in Ngumoha (18), Leoni (19), Nyoni (19) and Jacquet (21).
And the ones that are above 21 but still a few years before their peak, Wirtz (23), Ekitike (24), Munoz (23), Gravenberch (24).
Then there’s the players in or very near their peak, Macca (27), Araujo (27), Szoboszlai (25), Curtis (25), Mama (25), Isak (26).
That looks to me like a very good balance, and that it’s not a case of win before it’s too late, but a team whose core can build things for the next decade.
As long as we can see something genuine being built, and to look forward to watch us play every game, I’m fine with it. If we manage to add trophies along the way already, I’ll be even happier.
It’s also okay with a lower league placement in the first season, as long as we can see clear style of play implemented and that we are clearly moving in the right direction. And that the actual football doesn’t suck.
I think that it’s too early to tell what they can and cannot do. Iraola is asking them to do stuff that wasn’t required for two seasons.
With that said, Szoboszlai can pass the ball; not as well as TAA, but still to a high level. My issue with him in the two friendlies that I’ve watched is that he is running around like a headless chicken. He exerts too much energy and has little to show for. And in possession he does have to move the ball quicker and make better decisions.
The rest are more or less in the same tier, with different strengths and weaknesses. I think the most balanced is Mac Allister and he’s the one who should be getting the most starts. Beyond him, both Jones and Gravenberch are press-resistant and can contribute offensively, although the latter at times last season couldn’t make simple 5-yard passes. Nyoni seems ready to be an active member of the group, and he may have a high ceiling. Endo and Elliott are known quantities, who have shown in the past that they can contribute to different areas of the pitch.
To be honest, I’m more worried about the defensive solidity, especially if/when the press is bypassed, which happens a bit too easily now, but that’s more of a coaching matter.
Judging from last year, it’s probable that he tends to be below his normal in pre-season games. In last year’s pre-season I remember him turning the ball over so many times, it was one of my main worries when the season started, and then Szobo went on to be our best player last season, showing me he was the last thing I should be worrying about.
The Liverpool we know, who play with their hearts and play to win rather than just to avoid defeat. Where that will take us, I’ve no idea, but I’ve had more than enough of the matches where I’ve fallen asleep
“The most important thing that we can deliver is our performances,” Iraola said. "It doesn’t matter if I speak well, if I don’t speak well, if I say the right things or if I don’t say the right things. At the end people just want to see the team play well and deliver good results. I know this is 90% of my job.
“For me, now, it is about creating a very good team to beat, a very difficult team to beat. The team that I envision now, that I see and think of, if we become that team, I think we are going to be successful.”
Andoni Iraola on what Liverpool fans should expect this season:
“I don’t want to promise people 60 goals or five trophies. I want them to recognise Liverpool again.”
“We will play with intensity, we will attack, we will press and we will give young players a chance. But we also need patience.”
“We have Wirtz, Isak, Frimpong, Szoboszlai, Jacquet, Araujo, Gakpo and some very exciting young players. If the club can add one or two more pieces, I believe we can surprise people.”
“I didn’t come here to maintain LFC. I came here to make them better.”