Rice stepped into a side that was already ready to win and filled a hole in their team left by an exiting player of a very similar style. Arsenal as an org deserve credit for such a seemless transition, but it was a straight forward one for Rice the player.
Wirtz came into side as part of a vision for establishing a totally new style of play for a successful side that had been built on a specific and different ideology. That evolution turned into a shit show that cost people their jobs and we are still trying to right the ship and figure out how to put the pieces together.
Except that that ideology generally does not work in England, where speed, strength and power reigns supreme. To make it works here will require billions to build and maintain a squad consisting of âartisticâ players that only City can afford.
Its fortunate that this âother players need to build around Wirtzâ is spouted by fans rather than Wirtz himself because that would be âNuri Sahinâ like where he blames everyone except himself for his failure to adapt to the PL. But Wirtz is hardworking and seems to have the right attitude at least public facing wise and that would work well and buy him more time. However, I would think that if he doesnât start getting it right in terms of crucial contributions in advanced parts of the field this season at some point, earlier than later, he has a pretty good chance to be gotten rid of next summer.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Rice is playing a different position with a different role and Gerrard had Alonso and Mascherano behind him when he played behind Torres, not to mention that he was doing so in a far more settled team.
You canât just compare random players without any context.
Gerrard was already carrying the team before Alonsoâs arrival, and long before Mascheranoâs arrival.
As for Rice, yes, he played in a different position, a position that we sorely lacked, but he made his impacts and presence felt and seen immediately upon arrival.
Another guy who made immediate impacts was Coutinho, who played at Wirtzâs position and was bought here for just 8m. Like Gerrard, Coutinho did not need to play under ideal conditions to make his impacts felt.
Based on his time in England so far, yes. He was very good in Germany though. I think he does have this season to show his worth. But it would be no surprise that great players have come to PL and failed so itâs possible Wirtz might too but as a Liverpool fan, I always hope our players come good.
In terms of Coutinho, he didnât only play in Wirtzâs current position. When we switched to 4-2-3-1 with Klopp taking over, he was immediately moved to the left side, inside left channel. He actually performed better when he played in other positions, he didnât play a lot as a single #10 for us. Wirtz is yet to reach Coutinhoâs peak level for us though, thatâs for sure.
My issue with Wirtz is that no one is doubting his work rate but Iâm pretty sure we didnât buy a creative midfielder to chase and press 11KM a game and not create anything.
Id rather he run 5KM a game and create several chances - like Cherki - he doesnât press and press. He creates.
I just think that both Slot and Ireola donât know how to get him in the team properly.
Is it the shit behind him? lack of movement in front of him? who knows but Wirtz isnât playing how he played in Germany and thatâs a fact.
He is a fantastic technical player but we arenât seeing it - all we are seeing is him chase and chase. Thatâs not what he was signed for.
I know Klopp isnât here anymore (though weâre working on reviving some of those principles off the ball), but he called the single #10 position as being defensively the most demanding position in that formation. And counter-pressing being the teamâs best playmaker. Sole creators in that role are over, those days are long in the past.
Press starts from the front and basically all of our #10âs (apart from Szobo, but then the creativity part with him struggles when heâs in that role) and #9âs in our squad have to prove they can be first defenders of the team at a high level.
Of course, with time and better understanding, perhaps he will do a little bit less, not as in distance covered or sprints, but being everywhere and as Iraola last called it when talking about Wirtz as being âa bit too attracted to the ballâ.
You might then say well we sold him, got in pressing monsters in and got better.
So thereâs your answer - sell him because I dont think you can press and press and create.
If you have a creator you need presser around him or something solid behind him - which we dont have.
The only way this works is if we get that Camara lad (or play Trey) and have solidity behind him and say to Wirtz stop all this running about and play like you did in Germany.
Coutinho was moved away from that single #10 position as soon as Kloppâs first game in charge, he put Lallana there that day (later that season, it was usually Bobby playing there) and Coutinho was moved to the inside left channel. Iâm pretty sure he never played that role under Klopp.
And yes, he had to defend and he did (you donât have to be a pressing monster to do so). Klopp said that he only accepts Messi not to press/defend in todayâs game. Even Cherki, if itâs another player in another team, playing that position, has defensive tasks.
Itâs not black and white. Players in that position need to do both, itâs really that simple. Itâs not separated in groups; pressers/defenders and creators.
As the game wears on, you will usually see Wirtz coming deeper to get balls. Thatâs not optimum for him, I donât know whatâs the problem, whether the people behind him are not finding him but if he keeps running deep away from the advanced positions, they will not find him. Itâs a vicious cycle. It could jolly well be a coaching issue to work out because afterall, despite worrying optics, itâs just 4 games into the season. But the team from Iraola to the coaches to the players know they have to get it right sooner rather than later
The problem was flagrant against Fulham. Florian doesnât get the ball early enough and the passes to him when he does get it arenât good enough. He starts on the back foot and is having to fight to get anything going.
Watch how he is very rarely the âplaymakerâ in our moves as others are trying to be playmakers and doing it badly (this is a problem we have had for a long time even under Klopp).
The focus of the team needs to change and that goes whether we keep it replace Wirtz. Weâre always going to end up with these problems.
Our passing needs to be quicker and sharper.
Perhaps we need a more selfish player than Florian like Bellingham. Good luck finding that!
I agree. People are obsessed nowadays with pressing but if your number 10 isn´t creating or scoring, what is the point of him? That HAS to come first.
Cherki is one example but another is Guler at Madrid, playing kinda on the right but kinda in the 10 and he runs way less. Google says 7.6km. Not sure it´s correct but he definitely runs less. Bellingham in the actual 10 is running significantly less apparently too and his game is fairly running based
Wirtz should run less and focus on impacting the game with the ball. If the midfield behind doesn´t do its job, that´s on them.
The idea that Flo could simply be offloaded to Bayern soonâor even swapped for Olise, or whatever other nonsense some people here are imaginingâis completely ridiculous. Everything heard so far from him personally or from his camp suggests he feels very comfortable at the club and has absolutely no regrets about making the move.
Of course, that could change if the online abuse from fans escalates further or gets even worse (though itâs already pretty extreme and over the top right now). Eventually, everyone might reach a point where they simply donât want to be constantly insulted or made the scapegoat anymore. But I donât see that happening just yet. Iâm curious to see how Klopp handles him and integrates him into the German team. In any case, I hope he can rebuild a bit of confidence during the international break.
Sadly I feel Iâve read this story about him before and itâs the same we would have had with Gakpo even though some of his pelters on here wanted to use it as a stick to beat Hughes.
Itâs exactly why what Iâve said these last few days some analysis thatâs opinion is terrible. Youâll find Iâve mostly supported both and will continue. Because they donât score or assist every game doesnât mean they are garbage but some here donât seem to be able to look beyond one game.
As for Bayern itâs been the lazy rumour for at least 2 years now as youâve said.
I find the aggressive behavior towards Flo absolutely repulsive, and itâs not just rival fans or attention-hungry punditsâunfortunately, itâs increasingly coming from our own fans, too, as is clearly evident here. Itâs always the same people pouncing on him and seizing every opportunity to crucify him or other players of ours; Iâm just sick and tired of how our players are being treated these days. Thankfully, the international break is coming up soon; Iâll definitely be stepping away from this place for a while if things donât improve, because itâs just become so annoying and exhausting.