And on Syrian Civil War. While the Russians are supporting Assad (Which is very condemnable) , You have the US backing the Turkish faction which also contains Tahir-Al-Sham (Which to my knowledge until recently was a member of Al-Qaida (And probably still is) against ISIS (Another monster created by US with their illegal invasion of Iraq).
So fair to say that both Russia and US have fucked up in Syria ?
So the conclusion is that Russia and the West are both idiots, just in different forms?
This is the danger of whataboutism, in the end you conclude that all governments are the same and therefore you stop condemning them and accept their crimes.
Yes, both sides have done bad things, but the bottom line is, would you rather live in a world dominated by automatic dictatorships, or by (admittedly imperfect) democracies? Iâd rather be in a place where I can express my opinion, travel freely, live where I like, have access to a fair legal system, trustworthy information and answerable political officials. Thatâs the choice.
I have those things now, and I value them. I wonât have them in a world dominated by Russia, or China, or Trump.
Iâm not some rosy eyed idealist, Iâve been on countless protests about economic policies, social policies and foreign policies and I know our democracies are a work in progress, but I am thankful every day that I have lived in a time and place where I have been free to dissent.
Can we move past this myth now?
I donât see how those elements are being a huge obstacle in his governance, nor is it stated anywhere that itâs the far-right as you originally said.
The whole issue of the Ukrainian far-right, as has been pointed out to you, is a minor issue compared to the fascist kleptocracy in Russia. As @Limiescouse pointed out as well, it also coalesced into something larger only because of the Russian governmentâs illegal invasion of Ukraine in 2014.
Most of what youâve said as part of your whole âboth sidesâ spiel is purely Russian propaganda, nothing else.
In a recent poll for the state election in Saxony, the far-right, Nazi infested and pro-Putin AfD is leading in the polls.
I guess itâs only a matter of time before the Russians will invade.
was always on the cards. Army Rule it is agan
Hmm will they not look for a new one after Imran is ousted? Is there one thatâs popular? It seems on surface at least that Bilawal who is young and more progressive could be a great choice, but he is political family with well known parents, who are quite controversial, at least the Father and up against traditional hardliners⌠Might not be easy for someone who wants to come in and be âprogressiveâ
Bilawal Bhatti to my knowledge is like Rahul Gandhi for India. I could be wrong on this.
But as of now , the favourite seems to be Shahbaz Shariff (the brother of Nawaz Shariff). Hes got some good credentials as an able administrator plus he is someone the military junta can get behind.
I get what you mean. Everytime there is big support for a worthy cause, there will always be the âwhat aboutâ the other causes. While they are not wrong, the whataboutism in trying to bring about equal spotlight, ends up diluting both ends of the cause.
As for your own personal experience of what you would rather live, for me, after what I have seen in my 40 odd years of life, I would never want to live in the West or in Russia/China. I have to come to view these 2 ends of the spectrum as seeing things only from their perspective and not really understanding what the other spectrum thinks. I do not want to live in a place where the government tells me what app I can use, that I can mysteriously disappear because I believe in a religion or said something against the institution neither do I wish to live in a place where my life gets disrupted because some people decides to block the roads because they are unhappy or thinking whether my sister will be safe walking home at 3am.
To me from my insignificant 5m population small island, I get enough freedom to do what I want with a government strict enough that I feel safe, I donât think I will ever find another place like this where itâs not perfect but balanced enough.
Just my own perspective! Afterall we all grow up in different upbringing, culture and influence. But one thing we can all agree on, no matter where you are from, there is no reason to dilute the backlash against Russia for the military violence against another sovereign country just because there are parts of the West you disagree with
Sometimes I wonder how the commoners will ever get out of a poverty cycle of they keep getting the same politicians. I know new is not always good but sometimes I despair for the people. I donât much about Pakistan but as always the people deserve alot more. So whoever is next, I just hope for progression and peace.
I dont think its about diluting the case. Its about ensuring that in future any such atrocity (irregardless of whether its the US or Russia or any other country) gets the same pumishment.
I dont believe that its too much to hope for.
As far as Pakistan is concerned , the most stable they have been in recent times was under Musharaff. I think they like the idea of being in a democracy without really understanding that in a democracy . the govt controls the armed forces. In Pakistan , the army dictates the terms.
They as a country will not progress unless they either reduce the importance of the army or regress back to the dictator type rule of musharaff etc etc.
Certainly, and from someone who is more âcentristâ, Singapore always preached rules based and I agree! The problem is based on whose rules? And pretty much the rules are made by the West. Donât get me wrong, alot of the rules are right by people but again there has to be more balance because the world is not just⌠The West and what they think is great for people might not necessarily be for the rest of the world.
But I also think that we need to be careful with our messaging and posturing because alot of times, even if the intention is not to dilute, it ends up diluting the main message. I donât disagree with what you say but I just think generally I see danger in the backlash against Russia being diluted. But yes I do hope for similar outrage in future if it involves another party from the West but for now⌠I think we need to be united in discrediting what Russia is doing
Definitely agree that if a country wants to progress, the government and military has to be govern separately and that power cannot be kept by one person for a long period of time. Just not sure how in Pakistan case, that they can do it without the military doing something to prevent that. Itâs like Myanmar, 10 years on the road to democracy and all it takes is for the military to trump up charges and give cause to a coup and thatâs it.
Those who ignore history and refuse to take the necessary lessons from it are doomed to continue making the same mistakes.
Today it is Russia , tomorrow it will be China and then US might just decide to destabilize another arab country for oil day after tomorrow.
Condemn Russia and they deserve that totally , but theres a disservice done to Yemen and the people there for example when Saudi Arabia is allowed to get away scot free.
The military never gave up power in either Myanmar or Pakistan. They gave the civil administration duties to the politicians. In short , responsibility without the power.
This way , they maintain that theyve shifted to being democratic whereas the reality is that nothing has changed.
I am probably a centrist as well⌠Maybe left leaning.
Tbe western notions of left and right are different from how people in asia think.
My ideal world as far as superpowers are concerned, is a very strong West and a very strong China, who can mitigate each otherâs influence without ever going to war. Even as a Chinese, I would never want a China who will become the only domineering power in the world, because I know they will just become another âWestâ who will create their own rules. But I would want a China who can keep the West looking over their shoulders and knowing that there is now someone who has that influential power and they now have an outsider who can keep them accountable too. So to me in Singapore, I am very happy that we have good relations with China and at the same time, we have strong military and economic ties with the West because we are very practical people, we do what is best for the country and the region and that is peace, trade and cooperation beyond the differences in culture, beliefs and agendas.
But this is just my ideal. Because obviously all it takes is one wrong step and everything is destroyed like what Putin decided to do. And I donât disagree with what you say. Every country, whether the West or China or Russia, needs to have a mechanism to hold them accountable when such actions are taken unilaterally.