Important News Around The World

Away End - General Chat
101

I don’t want to wade into ancient claims and heritages. It sounds so utterly ludicrous to me. USA, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. are inhabited mostly by people without any claims or heritage with those lands. Even us Bengalis have migrated from northern India and made Bangladesh our home.

Since 1948 millions of Jews have migrated to Palestine and made it their home. I don’t have any problem with that. But I can’t accept that millions of Palestinians have been driven out of their homes.

I find it shocking that the Jews, who have suffered so much, of all people can’t understand how much pain and humiliation they are piling on the Palestinians. That tiny piece of land is actually big enough for both of them.

4 Likes
102

I agree. What I would be interested to look at is comparing population growth since the borders were agreed internationally between Israel and Palestine (that Israel has later ignored).

103

Because the native inhabitants of those lands were pushed out, made war on, exploited etc. But, that’s okay because it was long, long ago and their populations have been in decline since. My point is, how far back do you want to go? It seems to me many people’s opinions are colored by recent history to a certain cut off point before which it didn’t happen or if it did it doesn’t matter. History is history, be it 2010, 1910, 1010 or just… 10. It’s all shaped the world.

@Hope.in.your.heart the Roman conquest and occupation of Israel (Judea, Galilee etc) is well documented. There were numerous rebellions, the most far reaching in aftermath being the Bar Kokhba rebellion. Jewish settlements did survive but an overwhelming amount of native men, women and children were slaughtered or sold into slavery.

104

No, that’s not okay. That’s definitely not what I meant. I’m sorry that you could misinterpret it that way. Bangladesh has hundreds of years history of fighting invaders and occupiers. I can’t support or even justify any act of invasion and occupation.

2 Likes
105

Actually, and again going by more recent historic documents, it was only a few hundreds who were forced to quit the country, mostly leaders, aristocrats and influential people. The rest of the population stayed put. Yeah, rebellions and the usual brutal repression from the Romans. No mass exodus.

That’s what I’ve read, and the sources I read (for instance Shlomo Sand in The Invention of Jewish People) are quite convincing. I think it’s enough to put heavy doubt on the nationalist-religious theories allowing the zionists to realise their vision of a 100% Jewish Great Israel.

Not only it’s ethically wrong anyway, it’s also based on a false myth.

106

The whole idea that people have a (God given) right to the land on which their ancestors lived two or more millenia ago is ludicrous. Not only would the entirety of North and South America be given back to native people, but Australia, New Zealand too. Then Siberia and the rest of Russia would have to be handed back. Turkey would be given back to the Greeks, North Africa would be cleansed of Arab influence, Chinese people moved out of Singapore, Malaysia and other parts of South East Asia. What would become of those descended from African slaves? Large parts of the UK population would resettle in Scandinavia or Germany. I suppose it would be ok for some geordies to reclaim Oslo or Copenhagen?

4 Likes
107

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I am aware of the dispute between historians on the matter and have read the opposing views although I fall on the other side to you. A few hundreds displaced after a major rebellion is simply not realistic imho. I am well aware that my view of Israel may not be a popular one and I’m okay with that. I believe Israel has a right to exist, I also believe that Israel has become an oppressor instead of doing something good in the world which they absolutely can do. Politics, religion, self interest and some avarice, it must be said, has corrupted what Israel can and should be.

1 Like
108

And to think of the forced repatriation of all the various tribes and ethnicities in Africa. The majority of the population in South Africa alone would need to leave.

1 Like
109

Just to be clear, I’m not disputing the right for Israel to exist, because that would be lunatic. This state exists now, a lot of people have moved there and it’s now their home, just like it’s the Palestinians.

What I find completely unacceptable, is the vision driven forward by the fascists around Netanyahu, who want nothing less than a 100% Jewish Israel. They are never stating it clearly, but their actions speak for themselves. Any decent human being can but be shocked by this.

Again, the only solution going forward imo is a common democratic state for everyone, based on laic principles, and promoting the exact same rights for everyone. Nothing else will bring peace to that area.

5 Likes
110

Oh absolutely, after all that they have been through its incredible that Israel as a state seems to be doing all it can to be an oppressive force in order to subjugate another people while making themselves one of the most hated states in the world. Beggars belief that someone in the Israeli hierarchy cannot see this.

6 Likes
111

Warning: This is a hard watch

1 Like
112

@GermanRed who actually is of kurdish descent approves everything you say.

2 Likes
113

This is where the “Fuck me that’s utterly hideous but my god we need to see it” button comes in.

1 Like
114

Cease Fire in effect thankfully. Not that it solves anything remotely, but it will let humans breathe at least.
I have followed the latest round of fighting, and the provocations that lead to it, very closely, just chosen to not write about it here but on my facebook page instead of here. I was worried I would be bogged down in arguments if i posted regularly about it here and I made a conscious choice that I would want to spend time on it as it would be mentally taxing.

Regardless, no one won this round except probably Netanyahu who now probably survives as Prime Minister despite Yair Lapiid’s mandate to form a gov, civilians suffered, particularity Palestinians and they are going to suffer for a long time with the after effects, both socioeconomic and purely social. Hamas degraded, but far from defeated (not that the Israeli political leadership wanted to destroy them, as they serve Israeli Realpolitik interests well, given that the West Bank and Gaza is divided; and I smirk at naive pro-Israelis that thinks Netanyahu even considered going all in to actually destroy Hamas, as these people don’t understand the Grassclipping doctrine at all). Israel establishes deterrence with Gaza (maybe), but like one of the better Israeli journalists say, lost it in Lebanon (there were 2 rocket attacks from Lebanon during this conflict and all the IDF did was shell the launch positions a bit, which is far from the usual targeted bombardments they dish out). Iron Dome very effective, probably around 90-95 % effective like IDF claims, judging from OSINT sources. Rafael is in that regard a “winner” here I guess. However, IRGC and Hezbollah know has the data they wants, and Iron Dome showed weaknesses during sustained barrages, where several rockets tended to slip through. Hamas metro is probably devastated, but still some what functional despite Israeli triumphalistic claims, given that they managed to fire more than 400 rockets now on the final day of conflict. And IDF desperately tried to assassinate Mohammad al Deif, but failed more than 3 times according to Israeli journos.

All of this, all of it, was fucking unnecessary and just bloody shame with no winner and only losers, except maybe the political fox Benjamin Netanyahu. And it is my opinion that the Israeli leadership, who had good intel that Hamas would fire rockets if they cracked down hard on the Sheik Jarra demonstrators, sent in riot police and threw shock grenades on people who were no threat inside the Al Aqsa mosque, triggering what they wanted to trigger. The entire story from then has been bloody predictable and was like watching a train crash in super slow motion. But now Netanyahu may get to serve another period as PM instead of facing corruption charges, so well done to him…

But thankfully there is a Cease Fire in effect and holding now and that’s all I want to say now.

Edit: Oh yeah, now they are going to probably bomb an Iranian target in Syria in a few days to punish the Iranian drone incursion, easier that than bombing Lebanese territory and triggering a Hezbollah response, which the Israelis won’t dare at this moment in time (when I say dare, I don’t mean in an existential way, of course Israel could wage war if it really had to against Hezbollah, but it really, really doesn’t want to is my point here).

2 Likes
115
116

Terribly upsetting and disgusting development from Bangladesh.

Our government has decided to lift the 50-year old travel restriction on Israel. No, they haven’t recognized Israel or have established diplomatic relation with them either. Why do you want to allow people to travel to a country you don’t recognize???

There isn’t any foreseeable or conceivable trade/business opportunities with Israel. Most of our trades (and investments) are with US, Canada, EU, China, and India. True, millions of Bangladeshis work in gulf states (in slave like conditions, I must add) but surely Israel don’t need migrant workers. So the only possible explanation is our government bent over let their Sheikh masters screw them.

This is way worse than the betrayal by the Sheikhs. They don’t have any history of struggle and emancipation and are oblivious to the sufferings of subjugated people.

But Bangladesh went through a bloody liberation war, three million killed and nearly 10 million driven out, to win it’s independence. The ruling party claims to be the vanguard of that liberation movement. The Prime Minister proclaims her father to be the Father of the Nation.

Now we have blood on our hands. I have never been so enraged and ashamed before. Please forgive us.

2 Likes
117

:astonished: :cry:

1 Like
118

I read the news, but it’s not clear to me.

How did they die? When did they die?

Reading the news (I read the CBC and BBC news), there’s a hint of cover-up and abuse, am I reading wrong? Was those schools some sort of reeducation camp for indigenous kids?

119

When you watch some of the documentaries, even from really early days, the propaganda would use phrases like: “Part of the Indians problem is in assimilating with the rest of the nation.”

The following is a couple of clips on the horrors and deaths of “residential schools” from CBC 5 years ago.

120