Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool Legend

Sorry for posting this late. You seemed to have missed my point, or my fault really , I was not clear enough in my words. The simple point I was trying to make was the owners needed to act now in January or in atleast last summer with a much needed injection of quality in the squad. What would be the point of this rumored 250 million, when we could not spend that much money ever before 2019 and that too was only done by the sale of Coutinho.
By summer , if we finish outside top 7 and have no Europe at all, it is going to be an uphill task for the next 2-3 years. I cannot for the life of me believe that this team will suddenly challenge for title from next season. My fear rather is that Klopp will be eventually sacrificed to hide some other people’s failings. And, any targets that we believed were attainable will need to be re-considered, let alone re-evaluated as well.
When we could not ever spend and build legacy while on top, do you really think the owners will go out and spend 250 million without champions league. I firmly cannot see Bellingham being signed.
Football today is all about money and ambition showed through that. Chelsea signing Enzo is a prime example of that. You will have City, United, Chelsea and even Madrid going all out for Bellingham with more money, ambition and chance of winning to offer. And, hence, I keep repeating that last summer needed the owners to spend some of their own money and buy 2-3 world class additions to the squad.

It was outrageous to think, by the coaching staff, director of football and owners to really believe that the same set of players will go again. Many players have come out and said that they were affected mentally. The players needed a lift and an injection. It was a collective failure from top to bottom. But, I cannot for the life of me believe that if given an option to Klopp, he would have said no I don’t want world class additions in this squad over the summer.

Now on the salary thing you mentioned, how does it really matter who is signed for how long. Chelsea have just made a mockery of that justification by signing players over 7-8 years contract. FFP has been badly exposed.The fact is the owners put the money where the mouth is… the same applies to FSG when they did this for a Red sox player.

And, as far as earnings comparison for Denver and Salah goes, here is a small explanation atleast from their base salaries
Agreed, Denver is signed for 11 years extension. Here’s a tweet confirming his 11 years contract including signing bonus.
By this information, he will earn an **average base salary ** of $30,090,909 (30 million dollars ball park).

Now, Salah’s weekly wage are 350,000 pounds per week , which amounts to £18,200,000 per year ( = $ 22,551, 266 , 22.5 million dollars roughly)

Hopefully, it is very evident here, who is earning more atleast by the base terms of a contract.

The question still remains for me, why can’t you put your money for liverpool football club , when it is in dire need of something and damage limitation was priority, but when it comes to sale value, you won’t budge for anything less than 4 billion ?

What is this actually based on?

They always said they would run us as self-sufficient… Rightly or wrongly thats what they said day one.

Your point around not budging on price is baseless, no-one knows what’s going on with the sale.

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@Draexnael Mate, I didn’t state that sale amount or them not budging as some kind of fact. It’s a hypothetical thing.

My question is based on my thoughts of how I feel in this situation.Would you not agree that, when it will be about sale, as a business investor they will eventually hold out for as much as they could get … fair play … that’s business to them.

But, then you also need to invest in that business to save it as well when it is under a free fall. This is what I call… intervention to save their business. This is all my personal opinion.

I along with everyone is aware that their motto was always about only using what we generate. And, by this some logic, we all should equally accept that last few years are only down to klopp and players and not the owners …as it is him who has been able to get these players at this level.

Today if the club is valued over 4 billion from Forbes…then it is not because of just the owners who generated lesser debts and only used club money for buying and selling. It is majorly because of clubs success on the pitch, which generate off the pitch revenues.

So, when it comes to invest in the squad in summer or Jan …to save this ship…they would rather not. Again…only my thoughts.

By saying this, then you have to also say that our current poor form is down to Klopp, you can’t have it just one way.

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They’ve spent a ridiculous amount of money even before January just to go backward. Some ambition that.

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I have always said… current plight is a collective responsibility. Blaming only Klopp for this plight is absolutely wrong. His hands have been tied…and he has not been helped as much as he would have liked. It’s quite evident.

Klopp should be the last of the last person to be blamed for our plight. This man has done so much for this club…

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I am specifically talking about the context of how money talks and defines ambition in today’s world.
Otherwise, tell me why would a world cup winner in his prime will sign for Chelsea ,
Who is 10 th in the league
Who had potter as manager
And, uncertainty about playing staff , if they will survive the summer.

The Twitter fan will now lose interest. Saw all those Chelsea fans goading Arsenal on Murdyk.

Like seriously you are behind a Liverpool side currently that hasn’t underperformed this badly since Rodgers left, and you are goading a team that leads the league by 5pts with a game in hand.

Not to mention the 21 point gap.

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Crazy how people still want to finger point at Klopp to the reason behind our struggles this season but it’s become the norm to do so for the average fan…managers are now the first line for where criticism is aimed, when really it’s the structure behind him that’s collapsing…a structure he’s powerless to prevent.

So you’re saying that their ambition is defined solely by how much they earn?

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A structure he may have had a decisive role in re-shaping?

Have had? Reshape hasn’t even started.

I’m counting “collapsed” as a new shape. :sweat_smile:

read what I wrote on the salary. I distinctly wrote “per game”.

as for the rest, it’s just football and i’m not going to cry over spilled milk.

I don’t have expectations of how LFC are going to be competitive. I read so many people getting out of sorts because the owners didn’t dip into their own pockets to subsidize the club that has NINE midfielders on the books, throwing more money into the fire. They tried the loan as a stopgap, on the wrong player. now they’ve gotta wait to get four of them off the books to make room for the salary of the replacements.

How do you blame someone for wanting to balance the books and keep them that way?

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I dont disagree with what Jurgen has done for LFC, but you can’t on one hand say he is responsible for all our recent successes irrespective of the owners, then on the other hand say its not his fault for our recent regression.

It is a team sport from top to bottom.

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spot on there

Whilst he may have some restraints on his moves when it comes to budget, he speaks like he’s of the same mindset of sustainability when it comes to the club overall. Obviously he’s not the one picking which capital projects the club spends money on (stadium expansion, training grounds etc) but I think he’d have at least some input on the outfitting and requirements of the latter.

None of us, probably including Jurgen… Saw this catastrophic slide down the table from last season and the catastrophe of injuries that have plagued our midfield performance. We knew that we had a couple of players on contract that we crocked which we couldn’t offload, but what we’re seeing here couldn’t really be expected to turn out like this.

The club tried to buy Tchouameni which has been well-documented, probably tested the waters for Jude to which they were unfavorable for a summer move by BvB. So this formerly-talented loan option for Arthur Melo came up and they took a punt to try and straddle a season knowing who was out on contract next summer.

And collectively, the club got caught in a hard place. Similar to where we were two years ago when VvD got injured and we were thin across the back line.

Maybe we salvage a run at 3rd/4th to get us across the finish line once things start ticking over again.

But I’d still take what we have now, over what’s happening at Chelsea or Newcastle. Long term situation looks really good for us, this is just a bump.

As long as we don’t sell to oil money, I’ll continue to support.

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well, yes you kinda can, if i was given a shovel and told to dig a hole, and dug the best looking hole in the country, but i eventually got tired as the guy with an escavator started digging a better looking hole than me, is it my fault?, or do i look to my manager and say ’ i need an escavator to get this hole looking good again’

however, in the case infront of us i dont think Kloppo escapes all blame.

all that said, i struggle to understand why people of Mazpains opinion get brushed off so arrogantly in here, maybe his wording is clumsy, but the point is;

injecting capital into a business prior to sale to keep competitive doesnt make the model wrong or even the club ‘unsustainable’

ignoring FFP for a moment (becuase everyone else seems to be able to do so) but if the club invested an extra, even 300m pounds into the transfer market over the previous, this window and the next would make this team more than competitive again and thus seeing the club hold, or improve its value, the value risks a bit of freefall at the moment because of reasons we dont need to explain.

upfront investment plus some capital injection still equals a hell of a lot of return.

put even more simply, the house is a little run down, just clean it up a bit before you put it on the market.

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Jurgen in summer, either towed the party line or felt that the midfield were well stocked, which he seemed to say in interviews.

As many have said, no one could have seen the decline of so many players.

For me no one is absolved of blame, it is a collective failing, but also the worst storm with players form and injury.

I do, like many, feel that we should have been refreshing the midfield even before last summer as we have lacked pace in the CM positions.

With regard to the Jan transfer window, we should have looked to bring a midfielder in, one issue is we don’t have squad places and a 2nd ussue is that the ones I would have liked are/were ridiculously overpriced.

I would love for us to pick up relatively unearthed gems to improve our squad, who they are I don’t know, but surely our scouting department should. One thing we need in midfield is a combatative midfielder with pace but also comfortable in possession.

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couple of things;

many could see the midfield decline, ill grant you, maybe not falling off a cliff, but if you name all our midfielders, you get a little bit uneasy.

regarding releasing a player and signing an expensive one, thats the point…thats the financial injection.

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This is fair.

But how many of them spent most of the time between 2018 and this season also screaming that out midfield was shit and that we needed to spend massively on it to achieve anything? There are a good number of players here who have spent their entire liverpool careers with a good number of people on their back wanting them gone. It seems a little bit right to act vindicated when the criticisms finally jive with reality and the players are forced to saunter off holding on to every medal you could ever win

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