I agree and it is not as simple to tot up and so yes, they do work very hard and have considerable skills, but one saves lives and the other (still) kicks a ball around.
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With the proper training even I can learn how to work a defibrillator so I can save a life for instance. I could have trained all day long and still could not do what Mo Salah can just like 99,9% of all people.
He has a skill that not many people have that’s why he is paid the big bugs.
And yet, if you ever did save someone’s life, it would still be more worthwhile than anything Salah’s ever done with a football.
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You don’t even need that anymore. Switch the thing on and it tells you what to do. Talks you through the whoIe process. I think the next generation of defibs will probably offer you counselling afterwards.
I seriously hope we’re not trying to reduce the years of nursing training to simply being able to work a defibrillator. You can’t save everyone’s life with one of those.
It would be akin to saying I can score a penalty. That’s equivalent to what Salah does.
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The topic seems to have gone a bit off track…
My opinion is that I fully get we are sponsored by Standard Chartered who have known links to some pretty horrific “customers” i.e. The Taliban. So I am a bit of a hypocrite in the sense of being so against PIF owning Newcastle. So that is my limit, i.e. Taking money from companies who I don’t agree with how they make their money to help the club is “ok”, yet being used as a vehicle for sportswashing by a country who litterally kill people who try to expose their atrocities is “not”.
I said in the other thread I’d walk away if someone like PIF took over Liverpool and I stick by that… The soul of football was sold long ago… Despite their mistakes I’m actually very happy with FSG as they brought us Klopp and gave him everything he needed to flourish… He brought my love of the game back, and I know he’d walk out if a “PIF” became owners, so there lies my line.
City/PSG owners? I’d lose love of football but probably not walk away… Would Klopp walk if we were owned by Qatar? Tough one that…
Now what about China? Known human rights abusers… Been linked in the past… That would really shake my stance… Yet again, I knowingly buy Nike products hmm… Understandably more hypocrisy. Life is strange isn’t it.
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You got me thinking. Devil’s advocate hat on. Maybe I’ve been listening to too much Jordan Peterson, now looking at all the angles.
You could argue that scoring a massively important goal with incredible skill in a World Cup Final to win it in the dying seconds could be better for a society as a whole than saving a single life. The weeks of celebration, the joy, the harmony, the increase in general wellbeing for possibly millions. The additional spending (which could be deleterious in certain circumstances) the according stimulus to the economy. In certain countries, the inevitable rise in the birth rate (common, google it) might be highly beneficial. Affecting millions for the better if you quantified it, could rate more highly than one life. The needs of the many vs the needs of the few etc.
One of the hardest things in emergency medicine must be making a judgement on who you don’t help because you know you can save many others if you’re not treating a lost cause. MASH rams this point home quite often. If a doctor can (and has to) sometimes make that choice, they are by definition putting worth and value on peoples’ lives and their chances of survival. Could making 100 million people ecstatically happy with all the long term benefits figure into that?
Wouldn’t it just be less embarrassing to say that you are a Man City and Man Utd supporting shit eater who drowns puppies?
And with respect to your ‘argument’ - the ‘joy to millions’ thing is not simply down to Salah etc. Football is a team game and beyond that the very act of scoring is not necessarily meaningful. It only becomes so because of the context which relies upon the fans and the sport more broadly etc who invest meaning in the act in certain circumstances. We saw that last season when even just missing the fans in the stadium the game lost so much joy; imagine taking away all the fan investment into the team/club/game and the tricks of 22 men kicking a ball around some grass really don’t mean much. Also if Salah doesn’t score someone else can/will. If Liverpool don’t win someone else can. Its pretty much a zero sum game if you are talking from a utilitarian perspective.
Saving lives; teaching the next generation; adding to the sum of human knowledge these retain objective value beyond (and in addition to) any subjective value they may also depending on their context etc.
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You missed the word “relishes” before drowning.
Will come back to this later. But thanks for response 
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And Starmer’s key-note speech. One’s opinion of the world is only constrained by the extent of their vision and exposure to all views.
I truly hope you are both joking.
I renewed my CPR training recently and the defibrillator does indeed talk you through the whole thing. The analogy Kopstar made is the right one. I might fancy myself to be able to score a penalty, but stick me on a football pitch next to Mo Salah and there’s no comparison. I’m overweight, slow, middle aged and nowhere near what is needed to be a professional, much less the world’s best. (Still a bloody good touch though, I’d argue!)
Some professions like nurses, teachers, firefighters, and others, are deserving of much more money. The difficulty is then how they are paid, as it comes from the public purse, and people don’t want to vote for tax increases.
Footballers getting paid what they do at the top end is of course ridiculous. But they only get what the game can afford to pay them, and if the game is awash with billions, because of the global spectacle that has been created, then more power to them.
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Oh, and what’s my limit?
It’s difficult to say hypothetically, but I think Arminius hit the right word with ‘drift.’ I’m not sure I would walk away from one day to the next, as the bonds to LFC are so deep. But I could easily see a drift taking place, where I had less and less interest as time went on.
Ever use one in real life?
they’re correct. I’ve not needed to use one personally but I’ve been at the park at World’s where it was needed and used in the game before ours. was impressive to see someone’s life get saved, whereas even 10 years ago this kind of tech didn’t exist and that person would have not survived.
Still requires operation, and requires someone proficient in CPR.
Otherwise the person dies.
Its not as simple as turning the machine on etc, and its over simplifying the need for training and maintenance of that training.
Also the defibrillator and CPR are crucial whilst awaiting expert help.
I am trained, have used a Defibrillator and CPR and the result isnt always positive
Maybe why I hate people being flippant about these matters.
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yes. once.
to be honest it was helpfull but there were a few of us and the defrib was just one brick in the wall that saved my mates life…(it was after a football game)
i dont know how id go if it was just me and a defrib…probably pretty babdly, but i do know if we didnt have the machine there that day we probably wouldnt have been successful.
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I not trying to detract from the process, we have both likely done a similar training. But maybe a bit of appreciation for those who have taken the time to learn it (much like yourself). One day, maybe…it may be you or I in need of such assistance…
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