The key bit here is take back meaning it is Ukrainian territory which Russia has taken, likely through illegal means. Russia need to fuck off and allow sovreign countries to make their own decisions.
1 Like
I may not understand the context and history of it but it still amazed me that Russia could just go into Crimea and declare it theirs and all these posturing of sanctions and paper denouncements have done nothing. To me it’s one thing to have different ideologies or ruling or political styles but to take something from someone without permission from the owner, I think we teach all our kids that’s wrong throughout the world. Unless I am wrong.
3 Likes
Ah what territory has Russia taken? None. They are pushing the Ukrainians to fulfil their obligations under the Minsk 2 Agreement, they are actually trying to bring the war in Eastern Ukraine to an end and produce a long-lasting settlement – in other words, stabilize the situation. Don’t believe war mongering NATO idiots…
Russia hasn’t illegally annexed Crimea then?
2 Likes
Crimea.
They have also flooded parts of Donesk and Luhansk with russian military equipment and civilians in an opvious plot to use their safety as an excuse to invade or install a more Russian freindly government that they can control and manipulate
95.5% of people voted in Crimea to rejoin Russia , is it only a legal referendum when Western powers say so?
I was unaware of that mate. Was the referendum considered free and fair? If so, then it should certainly be respected.
Russian troops were everywhere, it was a strange poll. Independant polling had shown a diminuing wish to integrate Russia, still over 65% however.
This vote looks very much like Putin winning the presidential vote in Russia with over 98%. Surely not a free vote as everything points toward it being rigged. A free vote would probably still come out in favor of a sovriegn state and/or integration with Russia, 75% are Russian speakers.
I do find your adamancy on this miss leading, it shows a lack of background knowledge however it’s not difficult to look up.
2 Likes
It’s one thing to respect a referendum but I saw that the referendum only took place after Russian forces entered Crimea. What rights do military forces to enter a territory if it does not belong to you?
2 Likes
Or for that matter the fact that the civil war in Ukraine was instigated by Russia…
1 Like
a country invades another country, under the pretense that it is protecting its nationals living there.
the same country is also building up its military on the borders of other countries
where have we seen this before?
lets hope we have learnt our lessons from the past
2 Likes
Except Russian troops had already entered Crimea so you could question if people felt safe to vote, and if the voted of their own free will?
thats a very high percentage,
almost too good to be true…
1 Like
Things are a bit more complicated than that to be fair.
Crimea was Russian territory since the end of the XVIIIth century, when they took it away from the influence of the Ottoman Empire.
A large part of the population nowadays speaks Russian and has Russian culture, as the original Crimean population was ruthlessly displaced and persecuted during the time of Russian occupation, the highlight being Stalin of course, who persecuted and murdered them even more horribly.
In 1954, long after the Soviet Union had been formed, Crimea was administratively attached to Ukraine, which was obviously a part of the Soviet Union at the time.
But still, the current population is Russian by language and culture, not Ukrainian. A majority among them prefer to be with Russia rather than remaining a cultural minority within Ukraine. The referendum took place before it’s official annexation, but with a good number of Russian troops already there. Never would the Ukrainians have accepted to hold such a referendum, knowing very well what the outcome would be.
I don’t try to justify Putin’s actions btw. He took profit from a weak moment among the Western allies, and knew he could intervene without being punished. He did it because Crimea holds an important strategic interest for Russia, and because since the early nineties and the fall of the former Soviet Union, the NATO haven’t stopped to extend their influence on countries in the vicinity of Russia, among them Ukraine. On a geopolitical level, it certainly made sense for Russia to re-annex Crimea at that moment in time.
Of course, the morality of such an action is debatable, but as we should know, geopolitics and morals are two very different things.
3 Likes
No arguments about the reality and facts about the ethnic make up of the region. But like you say, ethnic make up of a region does not entitle Russia to anything. Its almost like the Southern Part of Thailand is predominantly Muslim and has separatist groups trying to allow them to separate from Thailand since they have closer ethnic religious makeup to Malaysia than to majority of Thailand. Now, its one thing for Thailand to allow a referendum and if the region wants to join Malaysia, then great but another thing for Malaysia to walk into the Southern Thailand to 'Protect the fellow brothers and sisters of Islam" before a referendum happens. Thankfully I don’t think Malaysia would do that anytime but that is what Russia did. I acknowledge the facts but the facts do not allow them to walk into a sovereign country before they are being allowed in.
1 Like
Very complicated, for example what you left out was that the region was under the Ukranian administrative zone when it was part of Russia.
These old Russian administrative zones seem to be respected or not at will by Putin. Ukraine it should be disregarded but in the Albanian region respected. This type of picking and choosing makes things very complicated.
Also Donetsk might be very pro Russe where as Marioupol is reported to be much less so. Both towns are strategically very important to both Ukraine and Russia.
Wasn’t it all part of the Ottaman empire before all this as well?
It’s all too much for me but I think as even Russia denominated it as part of Ukraine this is the president that should rule. If we let things flip flop around where will it stop?
Then again that wouldn’t bode well for Albania would it?
Pew Research shows the vast majority of Crimeans agree with the result and believe Kyiv should respect the result. *“For their part, Crimeans seem content with their annexation by Russia. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%).” And “Crimean residents are almost universally positive toward Russia. At least nine-in-ten have confidence in Putin (93%) and say Russia is playing a positive role in Crimea (92%). Confidence in Obama is almost negligible at 4%, and just 2% think the U.S. is having a good influence on the way things are going on the Crimean peninsula.”
Oops wrong post. It’s unsurprising, they are mostly native Russian speakers with many familial ties across the border…
So Russia has or hasn’t taken territory? Which is it?
Yeah, but the Romans want Constantinople back to! 
Or are we pretending the Ottomans weren’t batshit crazy?
Refering to the Ottoman empire is indicating the complexity of the situation. Yes perhaps the Ottoman empire was batshit crazy however the after marth of it’s callapse is just as crazy if not more so. Just look at the modern problems we have in those regions.
1 Like