Gravenberch was actually the player who was deepest on our corners, which is not an unusual set up for us even when we have all of our starting players on the pitch. Chiesa, as we would expect was in and around the box for the corners.
We dont have great camera angles for the specific corner, but this is from the corner before, from a few minutes earlier. I think the thing most will point out is how aggressive Grav’s position is leaving us with all 10 outfield players within a yard or two of their box
As I said, we dont have great camera angles of the breakdown on the subsequent corner, but what happened is the ball came out to Grav and rather than just use ball simply and concentrate on maintaining his position, he played the ball and then got caught ball watching in subsequent sequence. He didnt recover his position and ultimately found himself in advance of 3 or 4 liverpool players and with no idea what was happening behind him. He made Chiesa the last man back not because that was the set up, but because he went walk about.
We can maybe point out Chiesa was slow to recognize the runner going past him and what his responsibility was as the player who had somehow ended up as last man. But he’s a fucking forward who has been put that position by accident and responded by busting a fucking gut to make up ground and save the day. Grav barely made it back into our fucking half by the time Chiesa was clearing it off the line. Criticism of Chiesa for creating this situation in the first place is a textbook case of deciding the narrative that is most comforting to be true and then running with that.
Yeah. I think this is a game we can probably over react to (us? never!). It was not a good performance, but as absurd as it would have sounded at the beginning of the season, a draw against this version of this Sunderland in the form we’ve been in is not a terrible result.
The reason for concern is precisely as you said. Confidence that simply the personnel decisions we made on the weekend was enough is a far less attractive argument after watching that first half. Mo at least looked brighter when he came on, which is great but the changes we made to get him on made us as a team worse and blunted Wirtz’s impact.
We seem to be stuck in the age old dilemma that in football any change you make to strengthen in one area has much likelihood to cause downstream problems as it is to have the upstream benefits you hoped for. From day 1 of this season Slot has not been able to make a single change to improve us in a specific area without a big drop off in another. Watching us is like playing one of those logic games where you are one move away from solving it but every time you make a move to get you closer to that you cause yourself another problem you have to fix.
That’s all fair enough - the only angle I’ve seen is from behind the Sunderland Goal it looks very much like Chiesa is the last man. My bigger concern is why he is that deep in the first place. I think Chiesa has a bit of an unwarranted fan club, but to be fair to him, he has shown a knack for just forcing the ball over the line with a touch. I’m not that’s a coaching/tactical thing, as Slot didn’t look very happy about it.
That’s an incredible refusal to engage with the actual analysis. Of course Slot was not happy. It is appalling football to have a forward be put in goal from one kick by the goalie. Chiesa IS the last man at the point the goalie kicks it, but only by accident because the actual last man has gone awol, has his back to play and shows no intention at all of recovering, long after his involvement in the previous attacking phase has ended.
I’ve been on the end of a bit of flak for this, and had my opinion misrepresented (that I think we should by happy about last night) but I think this is the right way to look at this.
I think a lot of people are basing their reaction to this game on the fact that we are the league champions and Sunderland are a newly promoted team.
I genuinely think that that has to be put to one side. Forget we’re champions. Forget Sunderland. That was a team that has been in relegation form playing one that deserves to be top six at Christmas.
What? I said your analysis was fair enough, said the angle from behind the goal looked like Chiesa was last man/cover, and agreed with your point that Chiesa shouldn’t have been in that position to begin with.
What the actual fuck is happening to this place? Do you need me to agree with you more vociferously?
You of all people do not have the room to be making these comments the way you have been engaging in recent weeks.
But I dont know, after multiple full throated criticsms of Chiesa and lots of mudslinging at posters disagreeing with your perspective, saying “well he does look like the last man” (because he, but not by design and only because he is covering for other people not doing their jobs) is hardly a mea culpa, or a clear acknowledgement that you got it wrong
No offence, but you have also have a pretty confrontational style in trying to make your points. Totally fine by me, but maybe explains why people react a certain way.
I know we disagree all the time but once Wirtz moved back inside, when Hugo came on he helped link play up more and that link up was a lot down our right with Mo, Jones and Szob.
If that was Chiesa’s responsibility to cover, I have some real questions for Slot. That would be a very weird defensive scheme, normally a fullback would have last man responsibility when the centre backs are up for a set piece or the like.
@Limiescouse has made the made the point that it was probably through accident rather than design that Chiesa found himself last man, and I acknowledged that was a fair point.
But that’s not enough either.
I am so utterly, utterly fucking sick of this place.
The Chiesa thing, for me, was a mixed bag. Delighted that he chased back and stopped it, but at the same time, I was concerned that the team had become too helter-skelter in chasing a late winner.
A late winner would have been lovely, but one of the clear growth areas for this team is to keep its shape, and stay a bit more compact. Having more than Chiesa to stop the break would have been much better.
Leaving the Chiesa thing to one side, I see a small sign that we have done that a bit better, with 4 points won from the last 6 available, and only one goal conceded instead of three a game.
Time will tell if we are starting to get a little bit of discipline back. I hope we are, and I hope it gives us enough of a foothold to stay in touch with the CL spots as Slot works through this slump with the team.
Chiesa doesn’t begin that sequence in a position to stop the break. Unfortunately, I cannot screenshot it from Fubo, but Chiesa drifts back to make himself available in space after he plays the ball out left - the ball goes in and the Sunderland keeper lashes it deep. Chiesa sees the threat and runs to the center on a diagonal, but starts the sequence well out of the line of the pass. No other Liverpool player tracked either of the Sunderland players making a run, though the run on our right side was not as deep and not relevant.
