I like this.
I think it’s a good way to go and would probably describe how I was during my mid to late teens
I think this works the other way too.
Somebody experiences a “miracle” and it’s just good luck, medicine, what ever.
They have bad news regarding their health (etc) - “where is god”
1 Like
I haven’t come across anyone of faith who hasn’t struggled with the problem of evil, and the basic logic that god can’t be all powerful and all good. It’s one or the other - it can’t be both.
I have heard a few whoppers though. I remember a few years ago now being invited to dinner with some friends of my partners, which turned out to be some kind of let’s get some heathens round and save their souls evening. Didn’t go well.
Anyway, I raised the problem of evil. The unbearable suffering that happens routinely and commonly all over the world, through human hands and natural causes. Surely that’s incompatible with the idea of a benevolent all powerful God?
The answer I got back from the husband of the couple was that suffering gives people an opportunity to show kindness and charity, and the suffering was worth it to allow those not suffering to show their compassion before God.
“So God thinks that a African child slowly dying in unbearable agony is a reasonable price to pay for someone in the west to set up a direct debit to an aid charity?”
“Well, the thing you have to understand is that God can’t be judged by the morality we live by. He works to a plan that is more complex than we can understand”.
It was at that point Mrs Mascot wisely made our excuses and dragged me off to find a taxi home.
Next time they invite you round, let’s go as a couple 
There is only one person that can settle the God debate beyond any question and that is @cynicaloldgit.
His next poll should be "Who is the greatest ever God ? "
My initial vote would be for Thor or Odin. Although some of those old Greek Gods* are pretty appealing, especially Aphrodite who I always imagine looking like Kylie Minogue.
- Not sure if the word “Goddess” is still applicable - don’t wish to offend anyone.
1 Like
I think there are too many people in the world who try and force people into their belief system.
I can understand it more so from the Christian point of view. Their belief is that they have a relationship with God, which is the best thing ever and that they are “saved” as a result and will go to heaven. I think I find the idea of them wanting to share that as a very noble one indeed.
Also if there is a god who is this huge cosmic being I find the idea of asking one of his followers to explain his actions a little bit of a difficult ask - they can give an opinion but it’s not going to be a sufficient answer for the masses.
I do however find it difficult to deal with when people try and persuade Christians and other religious people that their religion isn’t real or creditable and they are fools for following it.
Ultimately, Christians and other religious people are just good people trying to make the world a bit of a better place. When I say good people, I don’t mean perfect, they have their flaws of course but they aren’t a bad bunch.
I think that you will find the reverse is far more prevalent than the other way around.
Usually I only get involved when provoked, but there is something a bit strange about Christians moaning about being told something they can’t prove and don’t have a shred of evidence for doesn’t exist.
If God exists he has gone assiduously out of his way to make it look as if he doesn’t exist. That’s not my fault!
Yes but as I said, I find that a lot more of a noble cause that way round that trying to denounce somebodies faith altogether
Why? That’s quite the double standard?
It’s not really - the outcomes are completely different.
As I said - a religious person sharing their religion (not forcing) is meant with good intentions
A person denouncing somebody’s religion or taking the piss out of them for their beliefs is just stupid.
Surely you can see the difference
1 Like
I’m sorry but this doesn’t fly at all. The idea that you go to places with different beliefs and cultures and ‘share’ the good news is quite insulting to the recipients of the excellent news. Most people in those cultures find the ‘sharing’ to be ‘taking the piss’ and insinuating that their non-Christian or non-Muslim beliefs and way of life ‘is just stupid.’
2 Likes
No I can’t and you are assuming that the point of promoting atheism is unpleasant. My concern is that with all the ways religion retards our species through wars, persecution, suffering, and stymying progress, atheism would create a better world for everyone.
Additionally, I think people would be better off living in the here and now, making the most of their only life without believing it’s all a dress rehearsal for an afterlife.
Good and evil are just abstract categorizations, they don’t really exist. Our minds make up what is good and evil, accordingly to our upbringing, culture, beliefs etc.
4 Likes
Very sorry to read that, mate… Stay strong and get better soon!
1 Like
Nah, they want your money. However you dress it up. the “managers” of the religions know it’s all about power, control and money. Dave selling religion on your doorstep blindly believes everything he’s saying but I don’t for. second believe that the heads of the JWs do. As an example. They get spikey when you point that out too. Tithing is a creation of god you know.
The act of proselytization is not done for the recipient’s benefit IMHO.
1 Like
What if that religion is that unicorns exist or the flying spaghetti monster? Can we take the piss then? Why give religion a free pass ? (I never understood that) Is religion more important to a person of faith than football is to us? I can take the piss out of an Evertonian who’s a life long dedicated fan of a tangible and demonstrable thing but I can’t aim jokes at somebody who believes in an invisible god and wants that faith taught in schools and brought into politics?
3 Likes
But I think we can agree with too much philosophising that an African child dying in agony of a curable disease is not a preferable situation?
If you believe God is responsible for all the good in the world, he is also responsible for that.
This is why the idea of a benovent, omnipotent God is flawed. He can’t be both. If he is good, then he isn’t powerful enough prevent unspeakable horrors being visited upon innocents. If he is all powerful, then he doesn’t care about unspeakable horrors being visited upon innocents.
He’s also merciful and just according to the bible. Tricky one that.
I read that as an example - really hope it isn’t true, as Hope says…
1 Like